JP1 Remotes

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you have created an upgrade using the regular RC-5 protocol (as opposed to the special protocol which is the subject of this thread) and it works, but there are certain buttons (such as scroll up/down) that do not repeat when you hold the button down, regardless of whether you use the JP1 upgrade or the original remote, is that correct? What about buttons like VOL UP/DOWN, do those repeat properly when you hold the button down?

If I have correctly described the situation, you do indeed need a special version of the RC-5 protocol which will toggle the bit in order to make the device itself think that you are repeatedly pressing the button, but the trick will be to figure out the correct delay to put inbetween the repeats, otherwise the button might repeat too quickly.

Is your end goal to use a JP1 remote to control the device or do you intend to use your JP1 remote to teach another remote the signals?

The Robman wrote:If I understand you correctly, you are saying that you have created an upgrade using the regular RC-5 protocol (as opposed to the special protocol which is the subject of this thread) and it works, but there are certain buttons (such as scroll up/down) that do not repeat when you hold the button down, regardless of whether you use the JP1 upgrade or the original remote, is that correct?

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say. In the meantime, I have uploaded the upgrade into the "CD" file section.

What about buttons like VOL UP/DOWN, do those repeat properly when you hold the button down?

No, there absolutely no buttons at all on the original remote which do repeat correctly. I think this is a design flaw of the original remote or one of the IR-receiver within the hifidelio.

If I have correctly described the situation, you do indeed need a special version of the RC-5 protocol which will toggle the bit in order to make the device itself think that you are repeatedly pressing the button, but the trick will be to figure out the correct delay to put inbetween the repeats, otherwise the button might repeat too quickly.

Well, this seems to be a perfect task for a rainy day - trial and error...

Is your end goal to use a JP1 remote to control the device or do you intend to use your JP1 remote to teach another remote the signals?

I want to use the JP1 remote to control the device.

I may have this problem with an RC-5 protocol. Sorry am a newbie and have been experimenting with JP1 for a month or so. Great info here.

Have a URC9910, received upgrade codes via modem from vendor, 1080, 0631, 1184 and 1384. I learned too many keys which exhausted the memory, therefore I turned to JP1.

I have manipulated various codes I found here and uploaded them into my URC9910. I have, XV340HTD-Pioneer Rcvr/Amp, DVR-533HS and a simple Digital Cable box Pace/SA based on code 0477, plus a Sharp TV/Combo. All the vendor codes work just fine, I just wanted more buttons with less memory being used.

Code 1080, works partially on my Dell W1700 televison, including the power toggle.

Trying to learn or built from scratch is turning out to be quite an exercise. Especially for Power toggle on/off in RC-5.

When learning the power button, a press of power turns on the televsion, when you press off the television goes into PC/TV mode. I have tried all combinations of RC-5's various protocols, without success.

I can post the IR file with code 1080 alone in the upgrade if anyone wants to look at it. Although not till later on tonight.

If you'd like me to try out your protocol, I'll give it a shot and see what happens...chris

chris060 wrote:I may have this problem with an RC-5 protocol.

If "this" refers to the topic of this thread, I expect you do NOT have "this" problem with RC-5.

From your post I even wonder about your conclusion that you're using RC-5 at all.

chris060 wrote: Have a URC9910, received upgrade codes via modem from vendor, 1080, 0631, 1184 and 1384. I learned too many keys which exhausted the memory, therefore I turned to JP1.

When you started JP1, did you do an initial save of a .ir file containing the upgrades you got via modem?

We don't know what those four setup code numbers mean without the device type of each. Even with the device type we might not know. But with the .ir file containing them we would know.

chris060 wrote:All the vendor codes work just fine, I just wanted more buttons with less memory being used.

That's very different from an RC-5 toggle issue. If you post the .ir file that has things basically working but lacks room to add more, we might have some ideas for improvement.

chris060 wrote: Code 1080, works partially on my Dell W1700 televison, including the power toggle.

Trying to learn or built from scratch is turning out to be quite an exercise. Especially for Power toggle on/off in RC-5.

If code 1080 and/or your Dell TV use RC-5 protocol then things you're saying might make a little more sense. But I don't recall any Dell TV's using RC-5. The new Dell TV's use MCE, which is a version of RC-6.

chris060 wrote: When learning the power button, a press of power turns on the televsion, when you press off the television goes into PC/TV mode. I have tried all combinations of RC-5's various protocols, without success.

I expect you're saying something important there, but I don't understand.

chris060 wrote: I can post the IR file with code 1080 alone in the upgrade if anyone wants to look at it. Although not till later on tonight.

Maybe a few .ir files will be required before we understand. Certainly an .ir file containing the 1080 upgrade you got by modem would help us understand. An .ir file containing a few signals learned from the original Dell remote is probably also necessary. (If both are in the same .ir file, that's OK for communicating the info to us, but probably not OK for testing without confusing yourself).

chris060 wrote: If you'd like me to try out your protocol, I'll give it a shot and see what happens...chris

I would be amazed if your issues turn out to be anything that could be addressed by Rob's special protocol.

Sorry, did not mean to confuse you with my ramblings. To answer your questions:

1) Perhaps it's not an RC-5 problem?? Very well could be something else I've done.

2) Yes, I did save the initial ir file with the device upgrades. I often upload this back into my URC9910, when my upgrades do not work as expected.

3) When I learn any buttons from the original remote, ir returns the protocol RC-5 with 3 EFC codes and 3 OBC codes. It's an older Dell.

4) Lets see if I can state this any better. When I use the original remote and Learn a key press (Power on) into my URC9910. Pressing the URC9910-Power On turns the television on, pressing the Power on again puts the Television into the PC/TV state (changes the input). I was expecting Power off.

I will post the original ir file (with upgrades) and a few Learned keys from the original Dell remote into one of the devices.

chris060 wrote: 3) When I learn any buttons from the original remote, ir returns the protocol RC-5 with 3 EFC codes and 3 OBC codes. It's an older Dell.

At least one of those EFC numbers will be correct for use in a KeyMove or a modification to the upgrade. To know which one(s) we would need to know the fixed data of the upgrade AND the device number of the decoded signals. (Easiest if we get all that from the .ir file you plan to put in the diagnosis area).

chris060 wrote:When I use the original remote and Learn a key press (Power on) into my URC9910. Pressing the URC9910-Power On turns the television on, pressing the Power on again puts the Television into the PC/TV state (changes the input). I was expecting Power off.

Using learned signals, rather than KeyMove or upgrade, signals for RC-5 generally has problems. That symptom isn't ordinary, but isn't terribly surprising either. I think when you delete the learned signal and program the power command by KeyMove or modifying the upgrade that symptom will go away.

In theory you should be able to duplicate the symptom with the original remote if the symptom is what I think it is:

1) Starting with TV off, aim the remote
2) Press the power key, but don't release it.
3) As the TV comes on, cover the IR emmiter of the remote with your other hand, keeping the power key pressed.
4) Pause a moment
5) Uncover the IR emitter STILL keeping the power button pressed.

That ought to duplicate the signal pattern you get from using the learned signal twice, and I'd expect it to change to PC/TV state as the second use of the learned power signal did.

chris060 wrote:2) Yes, I did save the initial ir file with the device upgrades. I often upload this back into my URC9910, when my upgrades do not work as expected.

When John asked if you had saved the file, he was kinda hoping that you would share the file with us as it will remove ALOT of the guesswork here. Therefore, please load a copy of the IR file into the Diagnosis Area folder and then post a link to the file here.

It is totally OK (for us) if this file also contains some of the learned signals that you'd like us to look at.

Ok, I posted my .ir file to https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2688

This has the 4 codes from OFA for my devices:

XV-HTD340 (1384)
DVR-533HS (0631)
Dell W1700 (1080)
Code 1184 is an extra one OFA added in case 1384 did not work.

The Dell original remote keys are Learned to TV code 0093 in this example.


I also tried what John suggested, here's what happened.

1) Starting with TV off, aim the remote
2) Press the power key, but don't release it. - Television turned ON
3) As the TV comes on, cover the IR emmiter of the remote with your other hand, keeping the power key pressed.
4) Pause a moment
5) Uncover the IR emitter STILL keeping the power button pressed. - Television turns off

My goal was to be able to create a Dell W1700 working code for others, since I could not find one.

Any insight is appreciated, by the way great work guys.

thanks chris

chris060 wrote:Ok, I posted my .ir file

TV/1080 is RC5 protocol. Its fixed data supports:

Device 0 with OBCs less than 64, using the first EFC in the list of three from each decode.
Device 0 with OBCs greater than 63, using the second EFC
Device 3 with OBCs less than 64, using the third EFC

Your learned signals are all device 0, so they could be done as KeyMoves, choosing the first or second EFC based on whether the OBC is below 64.

Or you might choose to build a new upgrade to use in place of TV/1080.

When testing, learned signals override both upgrades and KeyMoves. So you can't test TV/1080 nor KeyMoves nor a new upgrade in TV mode, until you delete those learned signals.

chris060 wrote: The Dell original remote keys are Learned to TV code 0093 in this example.

When using learned signals, the current setup code doesn't matter.

If I understand correctly, you set up to test TV/1080 in AUX mode and test the learned signals in TV mode. That's OK as long as you don't confuse yourself.

I notice that the learned Power function is the same as the TV/1080 power function. IIUC the power function in TV/1080 works right and the learned one doesn't. That must somehow be due to the inherent problems with using learned signals for RC5, even though the symptoms aren't the common symptoms and my test for duplicating those symptoms failed.

If you use the decodes of learned signals to build a new upgrade (or keymoves) you won't have the problems that the learned signals have.

chris060 wrote: I also tried what John suggested, here's what happened.

That kills my theory about why the learned signal has the symptom you reported, but I'm still confident the symptom is limited to the learned signal and won't happen in any keymove or upgrade based on the learned signal.

chris060 wrote: My goal was to be able to create a Dell W1700 working code for others, since I could not find one.

It's a little easier to create an RC-5 upgrade in RM, but not too hard in KM either, if you read and follow the protocol specific instructions.

In either KM or RM you need to select RC-5 on the setup sheet and use two of the three device fields to select device 0, once without OBCs greater than 63 and once with OBCs greater than 63.

Then on the functions sheet enter the OBC numbers and (in KM) the selection of whether it is over 63 (IIRC in RM that detail is automatic).

Thanks John for the excellent response and insight.

I will try building the upgrade from scratch. I was following the protocol rules in RC-5 using KM. For reason's unknown to me none of the of the 3 OBC codes toggled the Television off in any of my upgrades. I even went through the process of sending discrete codes using SHIFT XXXn, nothing worked.

As you suggested I may have learned keys which I'll need to delete.

I'll start again and if I get stuck will post the file into the Diagnosis area and ask for help in another thread.

thanks for your time.