Pioneer PDP 5016HD decoding problems

[klflote]

Wow...lots of activity on this thread while I was gone

First, thanks to those who supplied upgrades for me to try. Jim supplied an upgrade that uses the Device Protocol along with Rob's tweaked Protocol for NEC1, and that upgrade works just fine. Rob also supplied an upgrade for the device 0 sub 134 buttons, which also worked fine.

Rob supplied a new upgrade using the Pioneer MIX protocol (which I was happy to see was identical to my attempt to use the MIX protocol based on the IR codes I got from the Pioneer website; apparently I understand this at some level). However, only those commands that use the 170 Device work; the commands that use the 175 Device do not work. [One thing about that upgrade: when it loads, it selects the URC-9910 remote and shows a protocol upgrade. As soon as I change the remote to the 9960 B01 -- or any other remote for that matter -- the protocol upgrade disappears. I tried the upgrade using the protocol upgrade as first loaded anyway, and also tried using no protocol upgrade, and neither works, but I don't know if the fact that no other remote shows a protocol upgrade is a bug in KM 9.10, or is expected).

So now I think there's some confusion about the commands and how I've been referring to them, particularly since Rob says we haven't seen learns for the two-command buttons. But I think those are in the file I posted as the device 0 commands. Let me back up a bit:

The IR codes I used (and that apparently Rob used) for the MIX protocol came from the Pioneer website (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/p ... 0HD_IR.pdf)
That file is for the PDP 5080, not the PDP 5016, but I've been unable to find anything on the Pioneer site for the 5016. I've contacted Pioneer to try and get the official codes for the 5016, but in the meantime have been hoping that the 5080 codes would be close enough (although the 5080 remote has more keys than my remote). At any rate, those codes have two-byte single part commands like Power (AA1C), and it has four-byte two-part commands like Menu (AA5B + AF27).

Meanwhile, the actual codes I learned from my remote are all identified as NEC1 protocol and fall into two categories: those that say they are device 170 subdevice 0, and those that say they are device 0 subdevice 134. I'm guessing that the device 170 commands correspond to single part Pioneer commands, and the device 0 commands correspond to two part Pioneer commands, but I could be off-base there. The learned device 0 subdevice 134 code for menu is OBC 0x0E, which doesn't really look anything like the 2nd part of the Pioneer-listed code (unlike Power, which had the learned OBC of 0x1C, as in the Pioneer-listed code).

So it may be that the second set of 5016 codes (whether they are two-part codes or a different NEC1 device) are sufficiently different than the 5080 that none of them work in the MIX upgrades I've tried, and that if I get the official set of IR codes from Pioneer, a MIX upgrade will be possible. Perhaps if I try a MIX upgrade where the second device info matches the learned dev 0 signals, that will work too. But I'm hoping I'll just get the official codes first.

In the meantime, I'm actually fine with using Rob's tweaked NEC1 protocol with either Jim's device combo protocol or with two devices and keymoves; since I have a 4K EEPROM and am moving to the extender, I suspect in either case I'll have enough memory. If I get the 5016 IR codes from Pioneer I'll see what else I can figure out, but unless anyone is really dying from intellectual curiosity about this, I suspect it can remain like this.

Thanks again everyone for all your help, and Rob, thanks again for the protocol upgrades; they've really saved me in this.

[The Robman]

Unless I missed a file (in which case, please re-post the link), the only dev-170 learns that I've seen are for the POWER and INPUT buttons, all other learns used dev-0.134

All the references to 2-part signals came from the UEI upgrade and the Pioneer website.

What we really need to complete these process is a complete set of learns from your Pioneer remote.

Therefore, could you please gather together any learns that you already have, and if you don't have a complete set, do some more learns until you do, and zip them together. For the buttons that are learned to non-logical buttons, rather than including a readme file, please use IR's notes feature to add notes to each learn stating what it really is.

Then I'll create one upgrade that combines all the functions.

[jimdunn]

Perhaps if I try a MIX upgrade where the second device info matches the learned dev 0 signals, that will work too.

I would hold out good hope for that - The device 170 signals which work DID decode as device 170, whereas for the other "set" of commands I don't think we've seen anything DECODE as device 175. (always dev 0:134)

Scanning back through the thread - I think the official upgrade Rob got was for the 5080 (as are the Pioneer Web Site codes) - and I think what we're finding out is that the 5016 is different, where this second command "set" is concerned - as you have already surmised: so,

But I'm hoping I'll just get the official codes first.

sounds like a good plan.

In the meantime, I'm actually fine with using Rob's tweaked NEC1 protocol with either Jim's device combo protocol or with two devices and keymoves; since I have a 4K EEPROM and am moving to the extender, I suspect in either case I'll have enough memory.

And at the end of the day, if it works, and you're happy with it, that's the original mission accomplished, albeit with several interesting side issues opened up...

edit: Looks like Rob and I were typing our replies at the same time...I didn't check for other replies in the meantime before hitting SUBMIT - and I type slowly...

[klflote]

After a couple go arounds with Pioneer, I have not been able to get the actual IR codes (at least, not in the 2- and 4-byte formats that is available for their other remotes). However, they did send me a Pronto file that they say has the commands for the remote. When I used DecodeCCF, I see that a few of the commands are different from what I learned, there is one command that isn't translated at all, and most things look like the NEC1 device 170 or NEC 1 device 0/subdevice 134 that I saw from the remote learns.

Although Pioneer named the file 4216, DecodeCCF says it's a 5016. The manual I have is for both, indicating that they are the same except for the size.

I have uploaded the CCF file along with new files showing all the learned commands from the remote (annotated in the tool this time -- sorry about that) to https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5065

As I mentioned, I'm happy to continue on with my two devices...I guess it's nice for the archive to have the single upgrade available, but I'm more than satisfied with all the help.

[The Robman]

Wow, you've done alot of work trying to get those codes. How come you didn't just learn them from your original remote?

[jimdunn]

He did, Rob, but between all of us (especially me ) we made this "bigger than Ben Hur"

The initial confusion between NEC1 and Pioneer just spiralled away, and we went up more blind alleys than a London taxi with the meter running

[klflote]

Wow, you've done alot of work trying to get those codes. How come you didn't just learn them from your original remote?

I started by learning them from the original remote -- the point is that I couldn't work with them that way, because upgrades built on them didn't work without the protocol upgrade you sent earlier in the thread. And now I can work with them, but only using a somewhat awkward technique (either separating them into two devices, or using the device combiner with two protocol upgrades that Jim posted earlier). Which is fine for me, but still a curious situation.

If you're asking why I went to Pioneer to get the codes, it's because the 2 and 4 byte command codes they have available for the 5080 (and every other product) seemed like they might have worked with the standard Pioneer MIX protocol, but they were sufficiently different than what the 5016 codes ended up being.

[The Robman]

But my point is that, so far, you've only posted 2 learns that use the 170 device code. All the talk of 2-part signals is based on the 5080 file, but there's no evidence that your unit uses 2-part signals.

To build an upgrade that would be able to handle 2-part signals *and* the 0.134 signals would involve some work on my part, so I'm not going to do it until I see some evidence that it's necessary.

If you would just bite the bullet and learn *ALL* the buttons from your OEM remote, I will be able to build you an upgrade that includes all of them.

It would certainly be ALOT quicker to just do the learns than spending all the time that you have trying to avoid doing them.

If you compare the various files on the Pioneer site, you'll see that the different models use different codes for similar buttons, so it's not a safe assumption to assume that your 5016 uses the same codes as the 5080.

[klflote]

But my point is that, so far, you've only posted 2 learns that use the 170 device code. All the talk of 2-part signals is based on the 5080 file, but there's no evidence that your unit uses 2-part signals.

To build an upgrade that would be able to handle 2-part signals *and* the 0.134 signals would involve some work on my part, so I'm not going to do it until I see some evidence that it's necessary.

If you would just bite the bullet and learn *ALL* the buttons from your OEM remote, I will be able to build you an upgrade that includes all of them.

It would certainly be ALOT quicker to just do the learns than spending all the time that you have trying to avoid doing them.

The file I posted last night has all the learned commands from my remote.

If you compare the various files on the Pioneer site, you'll see that the different models use different codes for similar buttons, so it's not a safe assumption to assume that your 5016 uses the same codes as the 5080.

Yes, but at least the various files I looked at all had a similar format for the signals, leading me off in that direction. And yes, I might have posted all the learned commands from my remote two weeks ago and said "someone fix this for me" rather than doing what I thought would help me to understand how it works so I might be able to deal with it (and/or similar issues in the future) myself. Sorry that I've instead only managed to frustrate you.

[The Robman]

The file I posted last night has all the learned commands from my remote.

Thanks for pointing that out, I missed it when I read your post. I thought the file just contained a CCF file.

Sorry that I've instead only managed to frustrate you.

I don't mean to sound frustrated as I'm not, I'm just pointing out that you seem to be making this into a much longer process than it needs to be.

If your first post had included a file which contained learns of all the signals, this topic would have been finished without even needing to go to a 2nd page.

[teamvc]

Hi all,

I just got a Pioneer LX5080D with a Remote AXD1551. I wanted to integrate the codes to my 8910. I ran into problems!
I learned all codes matching the Pioneer mixed protocol. BUT I found that 5 keys produced another combination that I was not able to get into Remote master. I just later found in the latest KM that there is a Pioneer mix 4cmd that should have done the trick, but it didn't! I think that there is a bug in there because I cannot get it to work normal. (If no bug please state a guess what I may have done wrong)

OK I solved it by using the protocol $7E from this thread using what I did with remote master for the pio mixed, pasted into IR and modifed the 5 commands that needed another prefix. Then I changed the header to use the $7E protocol I copied from this thread.

I found just 4 combinations
170 + command
170 + 90 + 175 + commad
170 + 91 + 175 + commad
170 + 94 + 175 + commad

Maybe someone can add the Poneer Mix 4CMD into Remote Master or fix KM to output working code.

I think that the Pioneer mix 4cmd protocol should do fine for most pioneer devices but it seems that the authors of RM an KM may want to look into that again , verify my claim and maybe bring their work up to date so anyone else may use the 4cmd protocol. most likely the 5016 uses the same or similar codes.
Maybe this helps someone....

EDIT:
In the meantime I reworked it all from scratch using the $7E protocol (original).
If interested you will find my final version for the LX5080D here.
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=5146

teamvc