H900 Marcos/Newbie's 1st Extender with RCA & Atlas

[sti491]

I am not sure if this thread belongs in the “Non-JP1 User” thread or this “JP1-Beginners” thread. Moderators please feel free to put it in the right place.

This new thread is continuing one from the AVS Forum, titled “Official Logitech Harmony 900 thread”. Dialog on that thread between me and mdavej ended on page 95, where we determined it was getting off topic and should move here. That link is: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/93-remote ... ad-95.html in case anyone wants to look back a couple pages there to get caught up. There is also a similar, older 2010 thread in this forum. I thought it made sense to make a new thread. Here is a summary of my status:

I just bought a new Vizio M502I-B1 TV and a Polk 9500BT sound bar/sub on Black Friday. I finished setting up my Harmony 900 (that I have had for a long time and successfully programed several AV systems on) to do various activities including custom buttons to run these two components and my Apple TV. I want to add button sequence macros to my Harmony 900, which it is not capable of doing in it’s OEM state… But it can IR learn custom buttons from another remote.

So I figured why not program a button sequence macro on another remote assigned to a custom button on that remote, then IR learn that button push to the Harmony 900? Made sense to try. But the macro from the first remote is too slow for the Harmony 900 to IR learn it.

That’s how I found the thread linked above. MANY thanks to mdavej, who took me under his wing and introduced me to JP1. I had no idea what JP1 was until a few days ago.

So I am a rank Newbie learning new capabilities to “fast macro patch” program a cheap JP1 remote using a FTDI cable and RM software on my MacBook, to then IR learn/transmit a very fast button sequence macro as a single custom button to the Harmony 900. That’s my objective. Here is where I’m at:

I have the RM software loaded, but still waiting for delivery of my RCA RCRP05BR and FTDI cable. Meanwhile I have read every tutorial, readme and other resource I can find here and elsewhere to try to understand the JP1 terminology, how RM works, and the logic behind it all.

It’s fascinating, and also challenging to someone completely new to all this. Honestly it’s like learning a new language. Mdavej has been patient and incredible helpful. So mdavej, below I’ll continue where we left off in the AVS forum thread:

Thanks for the heads up on the Apple FDTI driver. Mine seems “OK” as the download and upload buttons in RM are not greyed out, as they were for the user in the link you provided. Hopefully all will work well when I get my cable and remote.

I am looking for a little more clarification on your comments below regarding the patch:
“3. Not quite. You can save it if you want. You do load it into the remote. But after it's done it's job, it can be removed (overwritten by your original file). It's not meant to stay in there permanently."

I think I understand, but just to confirm, by, “after it’s done it’s job”, do you mean after I have IR learned the fast marcro from the JP1 remote (RCA RCRP05BR) to my Harmony 900(?) At that point I don’t need the RCA remote to run so fast so I should unload it by writing over it…. And my RCA remote would not work on my system anyway (as a back-up to my Harmony 900) because it has the wrong TV device code in it, until I overwrite it with the original RMIR remote file (?).

So basically, the fast patch marco is only to IR learn to my Harmony 900. Once I have done that, I HAVE to reload the original RCA IR file to get it back to my correct TV device code.

I think I have it, hope so!

Can you please explain the difference between this fast macro “patch” and a true “extender”. Is an extender used temporarily in a similar fashion, or does it reside permanently on the remote to accomplish unique capabilities?

I endeavor to conquer this learning process to accomplish my goal to add several macros to my Harmony 900 as a first step. When successful, I want to try to see if I can get the RCA to do some of the things my Harmony 900 does. Not sure if that will require some other extender. Meanwhile I’ll take it a step at a time.

Thanks in advance mdavej, again!

[tranx]

I want to add button sequence macros to my Harmony 900, which it is not capable of doing in it’s OEM state…

Hi. While you are waiting for the JP1 stuff:-
Although, for H900 macros are not avalable in the shape of 'sequences', the 'activities' are themselves just macros, and they can carry an apparently unlimited additional number of extra commands, to be issued sequentially at their start or finish, together with timed pauses if required.

For 900, or for any Harmony which can use the v7.7.0 standalone software, on the last page of the Add Activity process there are the following options:
Add action (...dropdown of devices...) when the activity starts [button 'ADD' > Select action (command/ delay(for nSecs)/ input/ channel) to add for your (selected device)]
and/or
Add action (...dropdown of devices...) when the activity stops [button 'ADD' > Select action (command/ delay(for nSecs)/ input/ channel)) to add for your (selected device)]

For your purposes, in that way you can probably set up the macros you need as fresh activities, perhaps in the same general form (with regard to the remembered power and input states of the devices) as that which is likely to be current when the macro would be needed, and customise a list of Added Actions so that the only effect of the fresh activities would be to issue the required sequences of commands.

For existing activities, you can see the screen which makes these options available as follows: Activities> settings> review the settings for this Actvity> yes but I want to add more control...> save> next> next>

[mdavej]

Can you please explain the difference between this fast macro “patch” and a true “extender”. Is an extender used temporarily in a similar fashion, or does it reside permanently on the remote to accomplish unique capabilities?

I endeavor to conquer this learning process to accomplish my goal to add several macros to my Harmony 900 as a first step. When successful, I want to try to see if I can get the RCA to do some of the things my Harmony 900 does. Not sure if that will require some other extender. Meanwhile I’ll take it a step at a time.

Extenders are very powerful, comprehensive and complex. They are hard to wrap your head around at first. They reside permanently but can be enabled/disabled at will. The patch was created to satisfy the request of one forum member who only wanted one extender feature (fast macros), without the complexity of an extender. I thought it would be the simplest approach for you as well.

Now that I'm hearing you want to get the RCA to do more, an extender makes more sense. In that case, if you want do dive right in, there is no need to install or run the patch at all.

Here are some of features and extender adds to the RCA:

- Unlimited devices via multiplexing (unextended limit is 8)
- Unlimited macros (unextended limit is 15 steps)
- 5 functions per button (short press, long, double, shifted and double shifted) (unextended limit is 2)
- Nested macros (macros that can run other macros, even run themselves)
- Conditional branching and flags
- State tracking
- Fast macros (about 10 commands per second)
- Variable length pauses
- Custom key group mapping (undextended has volume and channel lock globally and per device)
- Device specific macros (unextended can only do 2 DSMs)

In addition to the above, another thing JP1 remotes can do that Harmony can't is pronto hex import, create editable devices from learns, create custom protocols.

JP1 remotes can do a lot without an extender too.

[sti491]

Thanx Tranx.

I have twelve H900 activities programmed so I am familiar with what you are suggesting. I thought of adding another activity too, but could not figure out how, if I am already in an activity, to make a one button touch to do the macro sequences I want.

For example, if I am in my "Watch Cable" activity my soft screen is either showing favorite channels or soft button commands I have for my TV (to use smart apps or the TV menus when my H900 hard buttons are controlling the cable box and sound bar under "Watch Cable").

So if I were to make a "new activity macro" as you suggest, I would have to do several button pushes to make it work: Push the Activity hard button, maybe push the right or left soft screen buttons several times to get to the "new activity macro" on my list of Activities, then push that activity. And, I am not completely sure I could do that and have the activity I was in come back to the exact same place I was... probably, but not sure. The deal breaker is I only want to push one button to eliminate multiple sequences... not just fewer buttons. Maybe if what I wanted to do took way more button pushes, this option would make more sense.

My objective is to program three or four macros for 4 to 7 button push sequences each, and have them work from the one of the four color hard buttons (red, green, yellow, blue) on the H900.... because I do not use those buttons for anything in a any of my activities.

The very simple macros I want to start with are:

1. Get to my "favorite channel guide" on Charter cable, that I use all the time. I have not figured out how to do it in less than 3 steps (on any remote including the charter cable UE OCAP remote, which is silver with straight sides and JP1). The sequence is: menu, enter, enter. I may have to take several left or rights after menu, depending where I last left the quick menu, which is where the first menu push takes it. Most of the time this 3 button sequence will work because of the what I normally do in this menu. I use this a lot. I successfully programed my Charter remote with a macro using the on demand marco key and 995 command, so the yellowA button now runs the marco I want perfectly. It does it in SLOW motion however, that will not IR learn to my Harmony. I only want to use one remote routinely, my H900.

2. To blank my TV screen and just get audio, when I need the TV on to generate the audio as when I am listening to Pandora or iHeart Radio from the smart TV app. Most of the time I do not want my TV screen on with the graphics those stations generate. The first time I do that it takes 8 button pushes: menu, down, down, ok, down, down, down, ok. The second time I do it, it takes only 6: Menu, ok, down, down, down, ok... because the when I hit Menu the second time, 2 down the list is already highlighted from my last use.

So that's all I am trying to do as a first foray into JP1! If you still think a new activity will work for me, please try to explain it to me again. Admittedly, this is all a learning process for me and I may not have completely understood your recommendation. Thank you for your suggestion!

[sti491]

mdavej,

Thanks for your response. More questions for you(!):

1. I am unclear how many extenders there are? Is there one for each model remote, or many depending on what you want it to do. Do you add "an" extender (for something specific), or "The" extender for your specific model JP1 remote?

2. Do you load an extender by simply unchecking the box "Exclude Extenders" when opening a remote file in RM? Or, do you have to do something more like what we are working on with the patch?

3. Can you clarify on the question I asked in my first post here, continuing from our dialog over at AVS:

I am looking for a little more clarification on your comments below regarding the patch:
“3. Not quite. You can save it if you want. You do load it into the remote. But after it's done it's job, it can be removed (overwritten by your original file). It's not meant to stay in there permanently."

I think I understand, but just to confirm, by, “after it’s done it’s job”, do you mean after I have IR learned the fast marcro from the JP1 remote (RCA RCRP05BR) to my Harmony 900(?) At that point I don’t need the RCA remote to run so fast so I should unload it by writing over it…. And my RCA remote would not work on my system anyway (as a back-up to my Harmony 900) because it has the wrong TV device code in it, until I overwrite it with the original RMIR remote file (?).

So basically, the fast patch marco is only to IR learn to my Harmony 900. Once I have done that, I HAVE to reload the original RCA IR file to get it back to my correct TV device code.

4. If I did an extender instead of the patch, you indicated "it can reside permanently but can be enabled/disabled at will". Do you enabled/disable on the remote itself, and/or via RM software?

5. What functionality do you lose with an extended remote? I believe I read losing the IR learn capability is one of them?

I'll probably start with the patch, because my first objective is to just get a few simple macros into my H900. After that, I may experiment with an extender just to learn more about JP1 and get my new RCA JP1 to clone or do things differently/better than my H900, or to use it as a backup.

Thanks!

[xnappo]

You might also look at these:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Ac ... G&_sacat=0

They have their disadvantages, but I like them better than Harmony and the are supported by the JP1 toolset.

You could probably sell your Harmony and buy two

[tranx]

Thanks for coming back with the details. You have hit the nail on the head about having to go to the activities screen, then find the one you want, then use the soft button - I tried the remote which xnappo has linked while it still needs some searching for buttons on a screen, and understand from the experts that an extender for it is unlikely to be created, but agree that JP1 is indeed the way to go. In mdavej's list, State tracking and Conditional branching using flags, were the last and least basic things I have (sort-of ) understood but, with those features, an extender can even handle situations like: "...I may have to take several left or rights after menu, ...depending where I last left the quick menu...". I think there is usually a choice of up to 8 different flags with an extender, while Harmomy can only track power and input.

[sti491]

Thanks xnappo, maybe I should have gone that route. It's a little more expensive than what I have in the new RCA RCRP05BR and FTDI cable. And, my only initial purpose in my new purchases is to IR transfer a few short macro's to my H900. I don't want to replace my H900. I am vested in it's learning curve, hardware & software. I like the remote ergonomics, and don't really like the cost and/or iPhone apps/more things than I need, in Logitechs current offerings. Maybe I could change my mind (?)... what are the disadvantages of the Xsight?

tranx, thanks as well. Your comments below are very interesting:
"State tracking and Conditional branching using flags, were the last and least basic things I have (sort-of Smile ) understood but, with those features, an extender can even handle situations like: "...I may have to take several left or rights after menu, ...depending where I last left the quick menu...". I think there is usually a choice of up to 8 different flags with an extender, while Harmomy can only track power and input."

I will initially just make two Blank screen macro's in place of one to start with: one to use the first time, and one from the button next to it to blank the screen subsequent times. Later, as my next learning curve step, I may try State tracking and Conditional branching using flags, providing I don't wear out my welcome here asking too many dumb questions!

[xnappo]

I only have one complaint about the Xsight - and that is actually the touch screen - you have to look at it to know what you are pressing and it is sensitve. I would have preferred that it had buttons next to the screen instead. There is actually another model that is not as svelte (used 3 AA batteries instead of rechargeable) here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-NEVO-C2 ... 3f539c568b

That said - I have grown up using JP1 tools - so the fact the web programming that it comes with is pretty poor and you need to use RM-IR is a plus to me, not a minus.

xnappo

[sti491]

Thanks. That's what I meant about liking the H900 ergonomics. Physically it acts like a super remote using the hard buttons. I have a lot and different soft buttons with most of my activities. I don't like using the soft buttons as much... I use them as a secondary means to one level less priority than what the activity is for, such as watching TV using the hard buttons and soft buttons to run TV smart app or picture or audio controls. If I get too many soft buttons that I use a lot, I just make another activity and use mostly hard buttons.

[xnappo]

Thanks. That's what I meant about liking the H900 ergonomics. Physically it acts like a super remote using the hard buttons. I have a lot and different soft buttons with most of my activities. I don't like using the soft buttons as much... I use them as a secondary means to one level less priority than what the activity is for, such as watching TV using the hard buttons and soft buttons to run TV smart app or picture or audio controls. If I get too many soft buttons that I use a lot, I just make another activity and use mostly hard buttons.

Yep. The Xsight does have a reasonable number of hard buttons. Basically I use them, and make duplicate soft buttons for visitors/kids.

[tranx]

In any device mode, JP1 lets you use commands from other devices and, except with those xsights, ordinary macros can finish by leaving the remote in a chosen device mode i.e. the buttons of any device can change devices while doing whatever else you want, and you don't need to think in terms of activities. With DSMs (or learned commands superimposed on macros) the button set for each device mode can have a completely flexible and individual mix of actions.

[mdavej]

Answers to your earlier questions:

1. "The" extender for your model

2. There is a longer procedure and some work to do once loaded. all detailed in the extender's readme.

3. I like fast macros, so I'd leave them enabled. After enabling, the patch can be removed/overwritten. You can load it again at any time if you decide to disable.

4. On the remote itself, usually a long button press to disable, another to re-enable. Once loaded, you usually leave it unless something goes wrong or you need to use the remote's learning capability again.

5. Correct. That's the only thing you lose. But just disable, and you get it back. Re-enable when you're done learning.

I didn't think you were interested in a 900 replacement, but in case you ever are, I second the Xsight recommendation. Ergonomically it's nearly identical, has 18 devices, RF, rechargeable, favorites, activities, help facility, etc., just like the 900. But it can do unlimited length sequences, and you can completely edit every step in the activities. The only thing you lose is Harmony's state tracking and a bit of hand holding during the setup. The whole reason you are going to all this trouble in the first place is to get around the 900's lack of sequences.

I always thought the Xsight would be the holy grail of JP1 remotes. And thanks to years of brilliant work by the developers in the JP1 community, it is.

[sti491]

I know I am missing something simple to locate the RCA RCRP05BR extender file so I can read the Read-Me. I went back through the tutorials to see how to get to it. I just can't see where to find that file.

In RM, with the RCA RCRP05BR rmir file open, if I hit file/install extender, it opens to my RM directory but I don't see, or know which file to choose... so I assume I need to download the correct file and add it.

How do I find it?

[sti491]

I found it under files (duh!). It says in the readme, This extender is distributed only as a HEX file with only the extender code for use with EXTINSTALL (version 2 is required). Is that true using RM?

I'll continue to read through the readme to see what I can learn. I still don't have my cable, although I did get my remote today.