Coby DVD938

[vickyg2003]

What do they mean by 6+2 phantom devices? Does it mean two additional devices are programmable via a shift, function or macro key?

A phantom device is a device mode in the firmware, for which there is no device key. Simply by placing a macro that contains the phantom device, on any key, shifted or otherwise, you now have access to the phantom.
Pressing that macro key would be the same as pressing a real device key.

[gmaslin]

vickyg2003
I think I understand. I need either an unused key or key sequence to put the remote into the phantom device mode, then it acts as though it has the additional device. This would indicate that the 6131 can control 8 devices. Is there a way to provide visual feedback, like lit buttons, to identify the phantom device mode?

[The Robman]

Sometimes UEI uses the same firmware for several different models of remote, so even though the physical remote might only have 6 device buttons, the firmware might support more. In this case they never did use the 6131 firmware for any other remotes, but there's 2 extra device buttons in the firmware none the less.

To utilize these additional device buttons, you would program a macro that invokes the hidden device button. One option would be to sacrifice a couple of existing buttons that you never use (like the PIP buttons perhaps). Another option is to use shifting, such as a shifted device button (eg, shift/DVD).

The 6131 doesn't have backlighting, so there's no way to add any visual feedback, but you don't get any visual feedback when you select the regular device buttons, so there's no difference there.

[vickyg2003]

This would indicate that the 6131 can control 8 devices.

Yes, that is correct.

Is there a way to provide visual feedback, like lit buttons, to identify the phantom device mode?

The 6131 remotes only have one LED. The individual device keys are not illuminated, so there isn't any way to identify any device mode, real or phantom.

I think I understand. I need either an unused key or key sequence to put the remote into the phantom device mode, then it acts as though it has the additional device.

I think you need to look at the software to get the hang of this.
You'll need IR and or RMIR and the RDFs and Images


Open up IR or RMIR
setup up your path to the RDFs
and then do a file new and pick a URC-6131(old)/6131nw PVR remote
Then look at the General tab and you'll see
You'll see dev7 and dev8. These are your phantom device keys.
You assign a setup code to these, just like the other devices.

Then on the macros page, pick a target key. (IE Shift-AUD)
Add dev7 to the macro keys
When you press that target key, it will be just like you pushed the physical dev7 button on the remote.

[gmaslin]

I'm starting to get a little overloaded with all the new information but I have noted that I haven't been asked to rephrase a question in a while so I must be making some progress.

I haven't found a device descriptor for the DVD938 so it looks like I will have to code the commands myself. Thanks to all for the guidance and information so far. I estimate I won't be sufficiently competent to get all the commands on it working without further assistance. Hope you guys have patience because I am typically a very slow learner. I just saw an Ebay lot auction for 10 x URC6131 remotes with two interface cables ( 1 x parallel, 1 x USB) go for under $50. Was that a good deal?

[The Robman]

I just saw an Ebay lot auction for 10 x URC6131 remotes with two interface cables ( 1 x parallel, 1 x USB) go for under $50. Was that a good deal?

Yes, that does sound good, especially if the remotes have already been modified for JP1 use.

Here's the listing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230884448867

[gmaslin]

The Robman
I thought so too but wasn't sure so didn't pull the trigger. What would you pay for that lot if half the remotes were JP1 ready or none of the remotes were? Looking historically at prices and capabilities, has there ever been a deal better than the 15-2117 for $15? I have been reading some about the new remotes and their learning capabilities. What does JP1 programming offer that is currently unavailable with OEM key learning?

[vickyg2003]

What does JP1 programming offer that is currently unavailable with OEM key learning?

1) The first answer that comes to my mind is An Extender. The 6131 has an extender, but I don't think its full featured. Extenders are a little hack that let us do some really cool things with a remote. Fast macros are cool because they don't fail as often as a regular macro. (Regular macros fail because the user stops pointing the remote at the device). Nested macros and temporary device selection, makes automation much easier. My favorite featyre is the LKP (long key press) that lets a button perform different functions if the key is held down. Multiplexing is cool if you have more equipment than device slots. Some use the ToadTog for state tracking.

2) Some signals (ie XMP) are simply unlearnable due to the complex timing structure.

3) Some learned signals won't work right 2 times in a row (ie RC5) due to a toggle bit in the signal. If the signal doesn't change the toggle bit, the device doesn't recognize that its a new key press. An upgrade takes care of that toggling issue, to some extent.

[gmaslin]

vickyg2003
I look forward to and dread your posts at the same time. Whenever I read them, a new area of my ignorance is exposed and the result of more effort and study becomes inevitable. When I look up all the vernacular used in this post I get mostly unrelated hits. Searching extenders, I get IR and RF hardware device related pages, would you elaborate on what they are (ie: program class, hex table extension, etc.), where they are and how you enable them? I understand 'nested macros' as conditional code programming, what distinguishes the 'fast macro' beside the shorter execution timeout and how is it implemented? In the context of remote controls, what is muliplexing?

Are you saying that no remote on the market can do XMP or similar complex commands?

I am under the impression that the manufacturer trend is to remove control from the hobbyists and implement everything you would ever need to do in a learning function, what will prevent them from resolving RC5 and other similar issues?

[vickyg2003]

vickyg2003
I look forward to and dread your posts at the same time. Whenever I read them, a new area of my ignorance is exposed and the result of more effort and study becomes inevitable.

Before we're done with you, you'll want to have a mountain of spares too.

When I look up all the vernacular used in this post I get mostly unrelated hits. Searching extenders, I get IR and RF hardware device related pages, would you elaborate on what they are (ie: program class, hex table extension, etc.), where they are and how you enable them?

I refer you to this excellent post by Capn_Trips
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7389
I believe this in the Wiki as well.

I understand 'nested macros' as conditional code programming, what distinguishes the 'fast macro' beside the shorter execution timeout and how is it implemented?

Fast macro execution is a feature found in most extenders. We basically eliminate the long pause between button presses, and only send out the minimum number of repeats in a signal frame. As a result, the macros execute quickly. This has solved one of the biggest problems I had with automation. That is the user (my non-Inuit DH), often would often turn the remote away before the macros were done executing, leaving the equipment in some stage that needed to be manually corrected. The fast macros eliminated that problem. They are so fast you can barely see the menu steps appear on the screen.

In the context of remote controls, what is muliplexing?

That's where we change setup codes on the fly, with a simple press of the button. This is great for a remote that is short on device buttons.

Are you saying that no remote on the market can do XMP or similar complex commands?

No, I beleive the expensive Prontos do an adequate job of capturing these signals. but none of the cheapies that I have tried, were able to capture an XMP.

I am under the impression that the manufacturer trend is to remove control from the hobbyists and implement everything you would ever need to do in a learning function, what will prevent them from resolving RC5 and other similar issues?

Well I'm sure it could be resolved, but it would be very complicated, requiring more user training. But I'm not the right person to ask about that. I only started this to have a clean coffee table.

[The Robman]

The Robman
I thought so too but wasn't sure so didn't pull the trigger. What would you pay for that lot if half the remotes were JP1 ready or none of the remotes were?

Well, I'm not bothered by whether they have already been modified for JP1 or not because I have EEPROM chips and pins so I could easily modify them. I used to have a source where I could buy the URC-6131 in bulk, so I would buy them, modify them and re-sell them. I would sell the modified remotes for $25 each and I told a ton of them. So $50 for 10 remotes and a couple of cables was a good deal.

Looking historically at prices and capabilities, has there ever been a deal better than the 15-2117 for $15?

That one is tough to beat, the 15-2117 is not only JP1 ready out of the box, but it also has learning and an RF extender (not to be confused with the JP1 extenders that Vicky is talking about). All of that for $15 was a killer deal.

I have been reading some about the new remotes and their learning capabilities. What does JP1 programming offer that is currently unavailable with OEM key learning?

Before we even get into the really advanced stuff, like Vicky just did, look at it this way. When you load an upgrade into your remote, the remote will send perfect copies of the IR signal each time because it's generating them from scratch using assembler code. If you need some sublties built into the signal, either because that's the way the OEM designed it, or because you want it to do something cool, we can make it do it by changing the assembler. Plus, if your device supports discrete codes or any other functions that aren't on the OEM remote, you won't be able to re-create them just with learning, you'll need JP1 for that.

So, why is it a good idea to get a remote that has learning? Because you can then use it to capture the signals from your OEM remote, if needed, so you can build an upgrade. Most of the time we will have an upgrade for a device already, but if you buy an unusual device, you may need the learning feature.

Most of us hobbyists will use learning to capture the signals from our kids' toys, if they happen to come with an IR remote. Not because we need to control the toy with our JP1 remotes, but because WE CAN!

[gmaslin]

My 6131, set of labeled batteries in various states of depletion and cable are finally together and ready to go. From earlier posts I have understood I need the following:
RM-IR
RDFs
Maps
I have also noted that I may use KMFs only if they have been translated into text. Is there anything else I should know before bricking my first remote?

[The Robman]

I have also noted that I may use KMFs only if they have been translated into text.

What's a KMF? If you mean KM files, these are text files and they can usually be opened by RM with no problem.

Is there anything else I should know before bricking my first remote?

Well, here's the good news, there's absolutely no way to brick an EEPROM based remote, unless you physically damage it in some way. Whenever you hear of someone bricking a remote, they're talking about a flash based remote.

One tip before you start, once you have your new EEPROM soldered into the URC-6131, do a 981 reset on it, otherwise the download will be blank and the remote won't be using the EEPROM.