URC-6131n RDF (Button Code) Discrepancy

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:55 pm

In my continuing slog through the RDFs in preparation for a new release of the RDF/map/image files, I've encountered something that doesn't make sense.

The previous release (1.28) of these files by Nils Ekberg has 3 RDFs for the unextended URC-6131n (aka 'URC-6131nw') model, 2 of which are for remotes with 2 KB of EEPROM:

PVR0PVR0 (URC-6131(Old)_6131nwB00 PVR Remote 2K).rdf
PVR0PVR0 (URC-6131nwB00 PVR Remote 2K FIXED).rdf

Although it's not obvious without seriously re-shuffling some of the lines around, the actual differences between these 2 files are quite small. It boils down to this:

Code: Select all

diff PVR0PVR0 (URC-6131(Old)_6131nwB00 PVR Remote 2K).rdf PVR0PVR0 (URC-6131nwB00 PVR Remote 2K FIXED).rdf 
2c2
< Name=URC-6131 / 6131nw PVR Remote 2K
---
> Name=6131nw PVR Remote 2K
11c11
< ImageMap=URC-6131.map,URC-6131nw.map
---
> ImageMap=URC-6131nw.map
77c77
< eject:Slow=$2E,
---
> Slow:Eject=$2E,
110c110,111
< input:Audio{CC}=$37,
---
> CC:ClosedCaption=$45,
> input:Audio=$37,
125c126
<      $03, $23, $13, $18, $21, $26, $31, $32, $33, $34, $35, $24, $2f, $20, $30, $12, $14, $37
---
>      $03, $23, $13, $18, $21, $26, $31, $32, $33, $34, $35, $24, $2f, $20, $30, $12, $14, $45, $37
127c128
<      $03, $0c, $0f, $0b, $0d, $0e, $10, $13, $18, $21, $24, $31, $32, $33, $34, $14, $35, $23, $25, $12, $2b, $2a, $2e, $37, $26, $36, $29, $27, $2c, $2d
---
>      $03, $0c, $0f, $0b, $0d, $0e, $10, $13, $18, $21, $24, $31, $32, $33, $34, $14, $35, $23, $25, $12, $2b, $2a, $2e, $45, $37, $26, $36, $29, $27, $2c, $2d

Basically, it looks like someone created a so-called "FIXED" version of the RDF which supports a variant of the URC-6131n which seems to have the "Audio" and "CC" buttons with unique codes ($37 and $45) instead of both buttons using the same $37 code (which was the way it was set up in the original [non-'n'] URC-6131 RDF, where both functions were on a single physical button and therefore used the same button code). In this "FIXED" RDF, someone also updated the "[ButtonMaps]" lines to include this "new" $45 code, as you can see in the above "diff" output.

But this "FIXED" RDF seems to contradict this post, where Rob explained the history thusly:

The Robman wrote:Keep in mind that the URC-6131nw internally is the same remote as the older URC-6131, and on that remote the CC and AUDIO functions are combined onto the same button.

UEI obviously decided that those 2 functions have nothing to do with each other (like CC and SUBTITLE might have been a better idea) so for the new remote they decided to seperate the buttons, but as they are using the same firmware that came with the URC-6131 remote, they can't, so they just spread the one button across 2 physical buttons. Therefore, even though the AUDIO and CC buttons now "look" like seperate buttons, they are in fact still the same single button.

What I cannot figure out is:

Where did this "FIXED" RDF come from? Who authored it?
Is it right or wrong? I searched the forums and don't see any evidence of 2 variants of the URC-6131n, so what am I missing here?
What button code is associated with the "CC" key on a URC-6131n -- $37 or $45?

Any advice is much appreciated!

Bill

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:11 pm

Perhaps somebody cut some traces and made'm into separate buttons??

Hmmm, the facts don't support above!
I just took 6131nw, did 981 reset, coded a macro on shift-5 consisting of:
MACROS:
# Target Key Macro Keys Note
1 SHIFT-5 Angle{Sleep};ClosedCaption;Audio;Subtitle
Darn, I can't see hex in the Summary?????
Raw data says in hex: 9A 14 26 45 37 25
So they're separate?????????????????????????????
I hate facts. This can't be real.

In case I'm not insane, the sticker inside the battery compartment is G052501. I hate it when they put 0 and O and I can't tell the difference.

EDIT: the plot thickens:
Not being sure if above disproves/proves anything, I just made two macros, one on Audio, one on CC. Sure enough they're different, bound keys are $37 and $45.I might put'm through the Widget later to see if they send things I coded on them.

EDIT2:
This is a standard remote. I don't recall how to use it.
Widget/IRscope results:
One-button macros were 8 on CC and 9 on Audio.
With unknown device selected, I pressed Audio and then CC and got 2 identical results Tivo unit=0 Device 133.48 Key 48 hex F3.
Then I selected the TV button which is supposed to be RCA, two identical results: RCA, Device 15, Key 57, hex 39.
So they're not functionally distinct, are they?

whompus · Post by **whompus** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:35 pm

Wow its been a while sense I have been here.

I do remember the fixed rdf was for a modded remote. The pix of the mod is in the file section under hardware.

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:19 pm

Many thanks for the great input, Liz! I'm following the first part of your post and the 1st edit just fine, but the "EDIT2:" part is confusing me (over my head?). So I still can't decide out what to do with the RDFs. Do I need to wait for other URC-6131n owners (possibly with slightly different variants) to test and compare to your results?

ElizabethD wrote:Perhaps somebody cut some traces and made'm into separate buttons??

whompus wrote:I do remember the fixed rdf was for a modded remote. The pix of the mod is in the file section under hardware.

This RDF consolidation/update job is hard enough without some sick bastard cutting traces on the circuit board and making a new RDF for it!

In all seriousness, that suggestion would make a lot of sense and I found the thread in the Hardware forum that I think you're referring to. (Thanks, whompus!) But that guy wound up with a remote/RDF that uses $38 for "Audio" (not $45 for CC), so I can't see how that could be the RDF I'm seeing now. Did somebody do a different mod to make those button codes? Still very confused.

Bill

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:45 pm

WagonMaster,
Edit1 shows that given that "Fixed" RDF, the CC and Audio buttons are separate key codes. I'm sure we agree on that. But then I thought that was not sufficient, since how it's used matters, so ...
Edit2, in my humble opinion, shows that no matter what freaking thing you assign to those TWO buttons, in my case I assigned 8 to one macro, and nother macro was to press 9, each macro sends the same signal as the other macro (e.g. RCA obc 15). Which, I think supports what Rob wrote, that the code is common, taken from 6131old, so it's useless to separate them and give people a false hope that they got a button.

Anything else I should try to settle this in the absence of experts?

As far as what whompus said, and I recall some cutting thread as well, I think it's impossible to have it functioning, considering those are called by the native remode code, not even the extender. But then what do I know.

Hi whompus, long time no talk? Take a look at some enormous advancements in RM, KM and mostly IRv8. You not gonna believe it

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:11 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Liz.

I'm wondering if you could try this simple test, which would be conclusive enough for my purposes, at least until someone else says otherwise:

Do a '981' reset.
Program a macro on both the 'Audio' and 'CC' keys, but using the remote keypad directly (i.e. with the 995 code).
Download from the remote into IR and check the 'advanced code' area on the 'Raw Data' page for the macro assignments, to see which code is used for the "bound" key.

Bill

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:34 pm

I have no clue HOW to do that.
I just dug out the 6131 booklet, and see nothing about macros, other than 995 used to set master power.

In any case, tried something and failed. Then I used something advanced to fill the remote with zeros, did 981 reset and tried again, nothing comes out. I have to look someplace how to make a macro. 8910 booklet is of no help to me 'cause it has LCD instructions. Maybe 7800 has something. Bear with me, I've never done it.

I'd expect to see the macro in the macro list, as well as someplace past $400 in raw data.

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:05 pm

ElizabethD wrote:I have no clue HOW to do that.

My apologies... I should have been more specific.

On my remotes that can be macro-programmed with 995, the sequence is:

press a device key
press and hold 'Set' -- 2 flashes
press 9,9,5 -- 2 flashes
press the "bound" key (e.g. "Audio" or "CC")
enter the macro sequence (make it something obvious like '1', '1' for the "Audio" macro and '2','2' for the "CC" macro)
press and hold 'Set' -- 2 flashes

If that doesn't work, I suspect the URC-6131n doesn't support the 995 code, but I'd be surprised because I thought that was pretty commonly supported. I actually checked mdavej's big list of remotes before emailing you with that request, but there is no information about the URC-6131 or URC-6131n models as to what '9xx' codes they support.

Thanks for your willingness to run this experiment! I think it will be very helpful.

If you don't feel like interpreting the 'Raw Data', please just post the '.ir' file in the Diagnosis Section and I'll examine it myself.

ElizabethD wrote:I'd expect to see the macro in the macro list, as well as someplace past $400 in raw data.

It's the 'Raw Data' area that I'm most interested in since that will be independent of whatever RDF got loaded. I'm not very familiar with JP1 (EEPROM) remotes, but I'm sure I can figure it out because I've done it enough for my JP1.x (Flash) remotes.

Thanks again, Liz! Just holler if you need any more info.

Bill

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:09 pm

Oh, I forgot to mention....

Some manuals (like my RS 15-135) stupidly don't bother to tell you that '995' is a macro programming code. They just describe it as a "Programming Master Power" function. My bet is that it will work fine on your URC-6131n for generic macro programming, just as it does on my RS 15-135 remote.

Bill

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:15 pm

Still struggling. I only know how to do from keyboard on 8910 'cause the LCD talks back to me

So as a replacement I made two keymoves one on Audio one on CC but I only see $37 in raw data and see only one keymove. I have to repeat and try the macro thing again 'cause I didn't know about that SET at the end.

EDIT1:
Macro making is not taking. Remote doesn't even blink at the widget.

So I redid the keymoves, like this:
Set, 2 blinks, 994, TV, 5, DVD, Audio button, 2blinks
Set, 2 blinks, 994, TV, 6, DVD, CC button, 2 blinks

Edited -This paragraph is wrong - IRscope shows just one OBC.
IRscope shows
Audio button sent RCA dev.15, obc 53 and
CC button sent RCA dev.15, obc 54.

BUT, download into IR shows only one, $37 keymove:
DVD/Audio = Tv,Tv,0047, keycode $1B, efc or keyname 6.
Raw data says: $37 83 10 2f 1B (6131-old keymoves are weird) ends with 00.
What now? Let's call it a day, can do more tomorrow + try macro again.

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:49 pm

Actually, if these 2 physical buttons share the same button code as we suspect, it probably makes perfect sense that you only saw one keymove (assuming you made the keymoves directly on the remote keypad, with the '994' code). The last one blew away the first one.

In fact, I suppose even if you enter 2 macros with the '995' code, it's entirely possible (probable?) that only the last one will "survive" to be seen in the "Raw Data" output. I guess if that happens, a good test then would be to do the sequence of programming the 2 macros twice -- once with "Audio" first and "CC" second and then, after checking the raw data, once again with with "CC" first and "Audio" second.

To me, assuming that only the last macro appears in raw data and that it has hex code $37 both times (but with a macro sequence of '1', '1' in one case and '2', '2' in the other case), that would be quite conclusive evidence that the 2 buttons share the $37 button code!

Does that all make sense?

Bill

Post by **ElizabethD** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:07 pm

Yes it makes sense.
And I think I lied about what IRscope showed, that mayhave been a wrong place I looked. Because only the CC keymove comes through as I repeat things now. So at least it's consistent

I too though of reversing the sequence - tomorrow.
Let me know if you need some IR file, I don't think you do.

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:28 pm

ElizabethD wrote:What now? Let's call it a day, can do more tomorrow + try macro again.

Sounds good to me, Liz. I'll try to digest everything you've said and I'll be available for whatever you might want to try tomorrow. Thanks for all your help!

Bill

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:59 am

I also have no idea where that RDF came from (and designating it as "FIXED" seems like a poor choice). I do recall that when I first got a URC-6131nw, I took it apart and verified that the two buttons are physically wired together. Without some sort of modification, the firmware in the remote would have no way of differentating between the two buttons. While it is certainly possible that someone modified a remote by rewiring one of the buttons and then creating the RDF in question, it seems quite odd that this person then went ahead and inserted the new key code in the keymap. Since the keymaps in the RDF are to reflect the keymaps in the remote's ROM firmware, I wonder how this person could have also modified the ROM firmware.

WagonMaster · Post by **WagonMaster** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:33 am

Thanks for your input, Mike -- it's always helpful!

My plan, assuming tests by Liz or anyone with an unmodified URC-6131n{w} model don't show otherwise, is to assume that the RDF in question with the $45 button code for "CC" is a fluke. I do not intend to include it in the aggregate set, where it is currently (even in the last [version 1.28] release). I completely agree that putting "FIXED" in the RDF's filename was a poor choice -- something like "h/w hacked" would have been more appropriate.

Bill