Learning Commands /w IRMAN

Token User · Post by **Token User** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:06 am

I have seen only passing references to IRMAN (see www.evation.com if you are curious). I purchased one some time ago for an (aborted) PVR project (basically, my wife commandered the SFF box I had setup as a DB server for her dissertation).

Is there an application that will let you use IRMAN to capture codes in a way that that can be used to build the appropriate codes for KM or IR?

I know there are apps out there that wil let you control the PC via IRMAN, and these must be learning commands from somewhere. But how can I intercept these codes, and if I did, just how useful would it be?

CSE

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:01 am

For our purposes the IRMan is only useful if someone has a non-learning remote. The JP1 learning capability in conjunction with IR/DecodeIR.dll is very advanced compared to any other learning remote.

IRMan basically returns six 8-bit bytes of hex to represent the IR command, where it assumes that the burst On with the long off is a One and a burst On with a short Off is a zero in LSB first format. So for Pulse Width Modulated IR signals less than 48 data bits, you can make a good guess as what the Protocol/device/sub-device/function is from the IRMan data.

IRAssistant has the ability to look into the learned commands and get the raw hex from IRMan.

Token User · Post by **Token User** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:39 am

jon_armstrong wrote:For our purposes the IRMan is only useful if someone has a non-learning remote. The JP1 learning capability in conjunction with IR/DecodeIR.dll is very advanced compared to any other learning remote.

Appreciate the assistance - I fall into the category of having an "Idiot Savant" learning remote ... the URC 8800 ... it'll learn lots of things, but refuses to tell you what they are

(without breakout out the soldering iron). IRMAN would be the none lethal option to geting the codes I need.

Post by **The Robman** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:14 am

Hey Craig,
Don't be a wimp, get out your soldering iron and do the hardware hack on your URC-8800!!!

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:34 am

Craig,

Let's see how far you can get before "brain surgery"

The tools, DecodeCCF.exe, ccf2efc.exe, cml2efc.exe, and IRTools (that all work in conjunction with the IRDecode.dll) can decode an very large collection of IR commands at Remote Central and Premise Systems. There is the LIRC library that we can also decode. Your IRMan can confirm some important details, if needed.

If that still fails, soldering or purchasing a new remote may be next.

If you list the equipment that you are trying to control, we may be able to give you a better guess as to what may be required.

Token User · Post by **Token User** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 8:14 am

The Robman wrote:Hey Craig,
Don't be a wimp, get out your soldering iron and do the hardware hack on your URC-8800!!!

My degree is in software engineering, not hardware engineering ... so I am far happier with a compiler than a soldering iron

I have some older equipment that aren't fully recognised by the standard codes - notably a Hitachi shelf system, Sony NTSC/PAL VCR, Sony Multidisc CD Changer, and Sony Amp/Receiver (all about 10 years old, and running 240VAC through a step up transformer). I still have all the remotes for these units, and would like to consolidate them down.

My theory is that by using the IRMAN, I might be able to find out these codes, and match them to other equipment profiles in the files section (or add a new profile if applicable).

ALSO (side project), I have a Sony Clie that has the onboard remote control application. It'd be nice to translate from the KM definition files into a format that can be used by the Clie RMC app (now THAT would be cool 8) )

Craig.

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:56 am

Craig,

Sony uses the same commands pretty much worldwide, so that may be easier than you think. Right now if you can tell us any setup code that works for ANY command on the Sony equipment you can find the rest of the commands.

There is an excellent website for all things Sony done by another JP1 stalwart also named Rob (aka the other Rob) http://www.anycities.com/rhm5757/sony_home.htm

Hitachi probably uses the NEC1 protocol and IRMan can decode that nicely. You can most likely decode the Sony commands with the IRMan as well. All you really need to do for the Sony gear is to decode one command to give the primary Protocol/devcie combination each piece of equipment.

mr_d_p_gumby · Post by **mr_d_p_gumby** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:36 pm

Token User wrote:I have some older equipment that aren't fully recognised by the standard codes - notably a Hitachi shelf system, Sony NTSC/PAL VCR, Sony Multidisc CD Changer, and Sony Amp/Receiver (all about 10 years old, and running 240VAC through a step up transformer). I still have all the remotes for these units, and would like to consolidate them down.

Around here 10 year old equipment is not really that old--we've seen worse and been able to deal with it. 8)

I would think that most of the Sony equipment you listed would have KM files for similar models over in the Yahoo files area that would serve as an excellent starting point, and reduce the number of buttons that you have to research.

Token User · Post by **Token User** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:35 pm

I agree with you all that the sony gear should be no issue. I have been through the files section, and haven't found the code I am looking for - to add the twist, these are not US models, they are Australian (hence te 240VAC), so there are/were equivalences, but sometimes the naming/numbering is screwed to the point where it is unclear which files I would need.

Its not really a high priority - this is mainly "spare" gear I am dragging out of retirement now that I have room for more than one TV/Stereo setup. The main gear is setup nicely in the lounge room (and thanks to the JP1 forum running on an upgraded URC8800).

The IRMAN is mainly a diversion to keep me amused. I bought it for something else, and am now trying to find other things to do with it

jon_armstrong · Post by **jon_armstrong** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:32 pm

If you want to get started with IRMan do you have software for it?

I have used IRAssistant but many use Girder. If you don't have any the former is free just do a Google search to find it.

You just learn a command and in IR assistant I think you right click over the GUI where you have defined the command and it will give you 6 bytes of hex.

Try the Hitachi first. If a command returns something like 807F01FE then that is a good chance it is the NEC protocol since it has 32 data bits hence 4-bytes and it is in order :

Device, Device Complement, Function(known here as OBC), Function complement. It is also possible that the second byte is NOT the complement and in that case we call it a sub-device.

The bits will be in order transmitted (or backwards) but you can still see the binary complement by inspection looking at the hex.

There is a trick to simplifying conversion to decimal and EFC, you can use the EFC calculator in IR (Tools|EFC calculator) and paste the last byte (FE) and paste into the hex box and the OBC will be in the LSB Comp window (in this case the EFC should also be correct for NEC). You can paste in the first byte (80) and get device number in the LSB window.

Sony will be more complicated as the first 7-bits are function, and the next 5, 8, or thirteen bits will be device or device/subdevice.

Anything not covered here will be on the final