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barchamb
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 28
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: 15-2116 - key works, but not in a long macro |
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I have a 15-2116. I've got everything working the way I want for all my devices. I want to make the My System key turn everything on, and put them all on the correct inputs. Kind of like a "Wife" or "Babysitter" key. However, turning my Kenwood receiver to the correct input isn't working and I don't know why.
I have all my stuff on Video 3 on the Kenwood except for our Wii, which is non-digital audio, so it's on Video 2. So, if the kids have been playing that, it needs to get back to Video 3. I have the REW, Play, and FFWD keys for the DEV_AUD device mapped to Video 1, Video 2, and Video 3. If I press AUDIO, and then any of those keys, the Kenwood switches to the correct input without problem. So, I know my setup is working.
The problem seems to be my My System macro. Here's what I have it set to:
DEV_AUD
Power (the Kenwood does not have a discrete power)
DEV_TV
Shift-TV/Video (Discrete On)
DEV_SAT
Shift-TV/Video (Discrete On)
DEV_TV
Shift-4 (Discrete AV4)
DEV_AUD
1 (Zektor HD switcher input 1)
DEV_CD
Freeze (2 second pause using pause protocol)
DEV_AUD
FFWD (Discrete Video 3)
When you turn the Kenwood on, it takes a second or 2 before it will respond to IR signals, which is why I have the pause. However, no amount of pause ever works with this macro. Everything else in this macro works. I can mess everything up, but the TV on the wrong input, put the HD switcher on the wrong input, etc, and everything resets just as I want it. But, the Kenwood never switches to Video 3. Of course, if I press AUDIO, and the FFWD, it switches just fine.
Also, I've tried adding something like DEV_SAT;Info after the DEV_AUD;FFWD, and my Dish receiver does bring up the Info screen, so I know that stuff is getting sent after the pause.
Any ideas? |
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Capn Trips
Expert
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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My initial guess would be that perhaps the receiver needs to receive that command for a slightly longer duration.
Try a very short manual press of the FFWD button when in Audio device mode to see if the duration might be too short and the receiver not respond.
Replace it with a different Video input command and see if the receiver responds.
Replace it with ANOTHER command that is NOT an input selection but that will allow you to see if the receiver responds.
If it's a duration problem, it's possible that just sending the FFWD twice in succession might solve your problem.
If not, there are other tricks to increase duration, but they require more work (like creating a Device Combiner upgrade, or a custom tweak to the protocol).
_________________
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Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer) |
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johnsfine
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Capn Trips wrote: | | My initial guess would be that perhaps the receiver needs to receive that command for a slightly longer duration. |
I don't believe that guess, but I can't think of a better one.
| Capn Trips wrote: | | Try a very short manual press of the FFWD button when in Audio device mode |
It's too hard to know whether a short manual press was short enough.
For that test, I prefer a simple macro:
DEV_AUD
FFWD
DEV_AUD
Since FFWD isn't last in the macro, it won't be affected by the physical button press time. But it is the only IR signal in the macro, which eliminates delay and most other factors of being in a macro. |
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barchamb
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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I had already tried creating a macro for Shift-3 as
DEV_AUD
FFWD
When I press Shift-3, it does change to Video 3. So, I tried adding the Shift-3 macro to my "My System" macro, but it did not help.
When I get home today, I will try both the duration suggestion, and the DEV_AUD;FFWD;DEV_AUD suggestion and reply back... |
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sfhub
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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What happens when you press MySystem a second time after it initially did not work, does it switch the Kenwood then?
If it doesn't switch for warm usage, try getting rid of the DEV_CD; Freeze
I know you need it to work properly from cold start, but let's see if something is defined incorrectly and it never gets to the DEV_AUD; FFWD
Finally if that doesn't work another test which shouldn't be necessary, but try it anyway, change DEV_AUD; FFWD to DEV_AUD; SET_TRANS_KEYS; FFWD. |
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barchamb
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Pressing "My System" again turns the Kenwood off, as it is only a power toggle device. It does not have a discrete on/off.
And, I know the macro is getting to the DEV_AUD;FFWD, as I have tried putting in commands after it (like DEV_SAT;Info as explained in my initial post), and they work fine. |
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greenough1
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have a similar issue with my Onkyo receiver. While off, I would execute a macro that:
- turns the receiver on
- switches it's input
- switches the input for the tv
- and various other things.
Switching the receiver's input worked perfectly with the receiver already on. If it was off, then the start-up macro would finish and the receiver would be on the input it was on when it was powered off.
In my case it was a duration thing. I put the receiver input switch after the "various other things" step and it works 100% of the time.
Beware of the 14 (or is it 15) step macro limit.
Best,
jeff |
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sfhub
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| greenough1 wrote: | I have a similar issue with my Onkyo receiver. While off, I would execute a macro that:
- turns the receiver on
- switches it's input
- switches the input for the tv
- and various other things.
Switching the receiver's input worked perfectly with the receiver already on. If it was off, then the start-up macro would finish and the receiver would be on the input it was on when it was powered off. |
On some of the Onkyos I've found that discrete input select performs discrete on+input select. That's what I use with my Onkyo 702, but it doesn't work with my Onkyo HTIB. |
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barchamb
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| greenough1 wrote: | | I put the receiver input switch after the "various other things" step and it works 100% of the time. |
That's why I have DEV_AUD;Power as my first step, and then DEV_AUD;FFWD as my last step. I wanted to give it time to "boot up". That's also why I added the pause (The DEV_CD;Freeze in my initial post). So, I know I'm waiting long enough.
| greenough1 wrote: | | Beware of the 14 (or is it 15) step macro limit. |
I guess I didn't ever notice that in any of the read me files. I'm getting close to 15 right now, so I'll have to watch that. |
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sfhub
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| barchamb wrote: | Pressing "My System" again turns the Kenwood off, as it is only a power toggle device. It does not have a discrete on/off.
And, I know the macro is getting to the DEV_AUD;FFWD, as I have tried putting in commands after it (like DEV_SAT;Info as explained in my initial post), and they work fine. |
Personally I would throw out all assumptions and try to find a baseline for the simplest macro that will allow the discrete video 3 to work. Once you do that, slowly add stuff back until you see what fails.
Change AUDIO button macro to
DEV_AUD
FFWD (Discrete Video 3)
See if that works.
Then add the discrete ONs, except for the kenwood power.
Then add the other input selects like TV and Zektor.
Then add the pause.
Then add kenwood power.
Then try making pause much longer (like 10 seconds) by creating a macro that calls pause multiple times. You can get a long pause by defining a keymove for VCR/0039, EFC 157 onto whichever button you choose. For very long pauses (multiple seconds), I've found this easier than using the pause protocol. Maybe you are already using this.
Don't worry if you've done some of the individual steps already. The key is to find a baseline simplified example that works, then slowly add stuff back in until you break it. If you don't start with the baseline, then it is much more guesswork to figure out what the problem is.
Some protocols have slightly different variants where one version is used for repeating commands (like volume) and the other is used for single press commands like numbers. If the device upgrade mixes the two, single commands could still work, but the second command in a macro might not.
Sometimes it is a timing issue as other people have mentioned, but you seem to have ruled that out. If it was a timing issue, you can sometimes use the device combiner to specify duration.
Logical devices (like MySystem) don't support assigning keymoves, but it doesn't look like you are doing any of those.
I've found when using nested ToadTogs, sometimes the lower level ToadTogs never get called. My solution to that is to add redundant SET_CHAN or SET_TRANS and it works around the problem.
Last edited by sfhub on Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:00 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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sfhub
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| barchamb wrote: | | I guess I didn't ever notice that in any of the read me files. I'm getting close to 15 right now, so I'll have to watch that. |
Given what you wrote in the first post is your macro, I don't think you are running into any limits, but here is the section in the readme that describes limitation on macros.
| Code: |
NESTED MACROS:
==============
You can nest macros to any depth. Any key that is a macro when used from
the keyboard is the same macro when used inside a macro.
This is very different from the base remote and from other extenders. Pay
careful attention to this detail when converting a configuration for use
with this extender. There is no protection from infinite loops when a macro
nests into itself.
Many people have used the fact that macros don't nest (in the basic remote)
for things like a Power macro that uses the normal Power key. Find and
change anything like that in your configuration (see "Cloaking with Shift").
There is a 28 byte macro buffer (the same 15 byte buffer used by SelNestMac
on other remotes). That doesn't change the limit on an individual macro
(still 15 commands) nor does it set a limit on the total number of
commands executed by one macro (virtually unlimited). It limits the number
of commands "pending" at any one moment.
If you exceeded that limit in version 1 of the 2116 extender, it would give
the error message "MEMFULL" on the LCD. Version 2 will not provide this
error message. It will just drop commands without warning.
To understand "pending" commands, imagine 4 macros, A, B, C, and D:
A = B; C; D
B = 1; 2; 3
C = 4; B; 5; 6
D = 7; 8; 9
when you press A, you get 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9, which is 12 commands, but
in executing those 12 commands, there were never 12 commands "pending".
When the extender processes the first B there are 5 command pending:
1; 2; 3; C; D;
Later it process the C and there are again 5 commands pending:
4; B; 5; 6; D
When it processes the second B there are 6 commands pending
1; 2; 3; 5; 6; D
The whole 12 commands are sent with a maximum of 6 ever pending. You should
be able to design ridiculously long macros without ever hitting the limit of
32 pending commands.
FAST MACROS:
============
I reduced both the hold time and the delay time for commands in a macro. I
think that is necessary to make macros useful. There are situations in which
you need to add back some hold time or delay time.
For delay, you can use:
1) For a very small delay, use a redundant device selection command. If you
know that a DEV_ selection won't be in use at the relevant point in macro
execution, you can use a redundant DEV_Cancel as a tiny delay. If you know or
use any other device selection, you can use it again as a delay. For example,
if you want a delay between digits in the macro "DEV_TV; 0; 3" you could use
"DEV_TV; 0; DEV_TV; 3".
2) For a slightly longer delay, use an undefined key code. The actual amount
of delay will depend on the number of items in your KeyMove and Macro area.
For example, if you have no KeyMove or Macro for xs_Phantom1 you could
use xs_Phantom1 as a delay.
3) For a long delay, use a KeyMove connected to the Pause protocol (MISC/1104).
The hex command is the amount of delay from 01 (smallest) to FF.
For adding back hold time, I haven't provided anything in this version of
the extender, except for the last step of a macro. |
Last edited by sfhub on Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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greenough1
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| sfhub wrote: |
On some of the Onkyos I've found that discrete input select performs discrete on+input select. That's what I use with my Onkyo 702, but it doesn't work with my Onkyo HTIB. |
That would have been really convenient with my Onkyo 575X, but it doesn't work.
(by the way thanks for the oppo 970HD upgrade 
jeff |
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barchamb
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Just to report back to the thread:
Putting two commands back to back did the trick for me. So, my macro now ends DEV_AUD;FFWD;FFWD and appears to send enough signal now that it works every time.
Thanks for the help! |
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ElizabethD
Advanced Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2004
Posts: 2348
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| barchamb wrote: | | greenough1 wrote: | | Beware of the 14 (or is it 15) step macro limit. |
I guess I didn't ever notice that in any of the read me files. I'm getting close to 15 right now, so I'll have to watch that. |
Actually it's 13 button codes 
Edited: Correction: Macro limit is indeed 15 commands. The limit of 13 is on some special protocol keymoves.
_________________
Liz
Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride
Last edited by ElizabethD on Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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barchamb
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| ElizabethD wrote: | | Actually it's 13 button codes |
So, do DEV_XXX's count as "button codes"? If so, my macro is at 15, and it works fine. If not, I'm only at 8... |
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