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Unit # not processed for ReplayTV (Official) in RM 1.78
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

                    
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Unit # not processed for ReplayTV (Official) in RM 1.78 Reply with quote

I was creating a custom upgrade to allow my SlingBox to control my ReplayTVs and noticed a problem with the handling of the Unit # in RM.

Sling only includes Replay devices for device 0, 1, 2. I needed devices 3, 4, 5 so I went ahead and created an upgrade file in RM after figuring out which buttons in the RM remote map to the virtual remote in Sling.

Anyway, I noticed that my buttons were not working as expected and when I turned on the Replay, all the units in the room performed power toggle, instead of just the unit being referenced.

I tracked the problem down to RM's handling of the Unit Code parameter. Apparently it isn't doing anything with this parameter.

If I look at the Hex for my functions, by default Power Toggle should be 00 0C. If I change the Unit # to 1, the hex should change to 01 0C.

Since RM seems to be ignoring the Unit #, the first # is always left at 00, which means the sent signals are addressing any Replay unit rather than a specific unit.

I ended up manually changing the 00 to be 01 and everything works, but RM should really be doing this automatically for me. KM certain does.

I tried RM versions 1.74 - 1.78 and they all behaved the same w/r/t unit code.

I put my .rmdu file for sling/ReplayTV upgrade for diagnosis here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=4803


Last edited by sfhub on Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is definitely a problem with the way that the "ReplayTV (Official)" protocol is set up in protocols.ini but unfortunately, I don't know how to link the variable data hex codes to the unit code entered.

However, you shouldn't be using the official protocol anyway. The only reason anyone would ever want to use the official protocol is when it's resident in their remote's ROM, so therefore they would avoid needing to use a protocol upgrade.

In your case, the Replay protocol is not resident in the Slingbox ROM, so you need a protocol upgrade regardless. If you change the selected protocol to either "ReplayTV (Simple)" or "ReplayTV (Advanced)" the problem will go away, and you'll have a smaller upgrade.

Note: you'll only need the advanced version if you want to include functions like "3 minute skip" etc, otherwise use the Simple version.
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

                    
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, I used to use ReplayTV (Advanced) for my 15-2117, but when I was running out of memory, I found that remote does have ReplayTV (Official) built in, which is when I started using it. I saw it appeared the 9910 also had it built in, saw I started using ReplayTV (Official) thinking it at least had a chance of being built in to the newer remotes.

I was hoping for a simple change to fix RM and maybe that is still possible?

For now, I'll switch to ReplayTV (Simple/Advanced) and see how it works out for Sling.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sfhub wrote:
I was hoping for a simple change to fix RM and maybe that is still possible?

I hope so too, but I think Greg will have to be the one to explain how to do it. John may know too, but I'm guessing that this one may fall to Greg.
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
sfhub wrote:
I was hoping for a simple change to fix RM and maybe that is still possible?

I hope so too, but I think Greg will have to be the one to explain how to do it. John may know too, but I'm guessing that this one may fall to Greg.

I made the following changes to protocols.ini to fix the problem. I probably should only translate 4 bits ( TranslatorFromDev(1,4,4) ) because Replay Unit Code only has valid values 0-15, but I left it as 1,8,0 to remain consistent with KM behavior.
Quote:

[ReplayTV (Official)]
OldNames=ReplayTV Official
PID=00 92
CmdTranslator=TranslatorFromDev(1,8,0) Translator(0,8,8 )
CmdParms=OBC=0
Notes=official version
DevParms=Device Code=1,Unit Code=0
DeviceTranslator=Translator(0,8,8 )
FixedData=e0 01
DefaultCmd=00 00
CmdIndex=1
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sfhub wrote:
Rob, I used to use ReplayTV (Advanced) for my 15-2117, but when I was running out of memory, I found that remote does have ReplayTV (Official) built in, which is when I started using it.
Unless you're running out of ALL memory, "running out of upgrade memory" is no longer the problem it used to be. IR simply allows you to overflow into unused portions of Keymove/Macro or Learned memory if you use up all of the allocated Upgrade memory. It's a very handy little capability that was added to IR in version 7.00.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just tried sfhub's fix and it does appear to work, so I recommend that it be added to the RM files.

However, back to the case in hand, I still recommend that the selected protocol be changed to the Simple version. Here's what the generated code looks like with the official protocol selected...

Upgrade code 0 = 46 4E (PVR/1614) ReplayTV-1614 (RM v1.77)
92 00 B2 F8 BE BA 3C 60 11 E0 01 00 00 00 01 00
02 00 03 00 04 00 05 00 06 00 07 00 08 00 09 00
0F 00 10 00 0C 00 20 00 21 00 23 00 22 00 24 00
1F 00 1A 00 12 00 16 00 18 00 14 00 1B 00 28 00
1D 00 26 00 27 00 0B 00 2A 00 00 00 1C 00 25 00
1E 00 2B 00 0A
End

Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 92 (S3C80) ReplayTV (Official) (RM v1.77)
47 93 22 8B 13 CF 85 40 08 04 00 DE 00 00 00 00
00 CA 0D BF 05 35 01 A8 E4 03 2D E4 04 2E E4 05
2F E4 06 30 08 2D F6 FF 6C 19 03 E6 04 03 08 2E
F6 FF 6C 19 05 F6 FF 6C 19 06 08 2F F6 FF 6C 19
07 F6 FF 6C 19 08 08 30 F6 FF 6C 19 09 F6 FF 6C
19 0A 2C 04 10 0A 10 09 10 08 10 07 10 06 10 05
10 04 2A F0 00 11 E6 10 07 8D 01 46 2C 04 CF 10
C1 DF 10 C1 90 C0 FB 03 B6 C1 03 2A F1 AF
End

and here's the exact same upgrade with the Simple version selected...

Upgrade code 0 = 46 4E (PVR/1614) ReplayTV-1614 (RM v1.77)
40 00 B2 F8 BE BA 3C 60 11 A9 35 55 65 55 65 00
00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0F 10 0C 20 21 23
22 24 1F 1A 12 16 18 14 1B 28 1D 26 27 0B 2A 00
1C 25 1E 2B 0A
End
Upgrade protocol 0 = 00 40 (S3C80) ReplayTV (Simple) (RM v1.77)
47 93 71 8B 12 87 05 08 04 00 DE 00 00 00 00 00
CA D4 44 05 35 01 A8 0C 0A 02 11 10 09 10 0A 10
C1 1E 10 09 0A F3 19 0A 8D 01 46
End

So, you can see that the official version is 195 bytes long and the simple version is 96 bytes long.
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

                    
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea IR 7.00 did that. I'm still using IR 6.20. I have different memory analysis for my case, because ReplayTV (Official) protocol is builtin to my remote. I listed my considerations and thought process below.

I actually am running out of all memory. My 2 main culprits are lots of device upgrades and lots of ToadTogs to deal with various things like my TV won't accept IR for about 6 seconds when first turned on and also to keep track of the state of whether I'm using the TV speakers or the home theater system.

I've gone through those memory pruning rounds where I've picked up all the low haning fruit and now went through more drastic measures.

I was using the TiVo dynamic unit select protocol but found that the crossover point when it becomes useful (for me) is 3 TiVo units. That is because my TiVo S3 upgrades are taking up 35bytes and for my remote I can use the builtin TiVo (Official), while the dynamic select protocol upgrade was using up 46 bytes.

Even though ReplayTV (Official) is pretty inefficient, using a 2-byte protocol just to express the unit code and I could really just use ReplayTV (Simple) I found my device upgrade is 78bytes using the inefficient official protocol, but when converted to simple became 81-bytes (38 dev upgrade, 43 protocol) and at the time I was very short on device upgrade memory so I went with official.

Now that you pointed out IR 7.00 can dynamically use all memory available for any purpose, I think I will go back and try Simple again because it has residual beneficial effects of reducing keymove memory usage and on another thread I saw that you mentioned the simple/advanced protocol support mapping the fav/scan button, which I also didn't realize.

BTW I already converted my RM upgrade for slingbox to use Simple when you first suggested it. Fixing protocol.ini was just education for me to see how it worked. For my 15-2117 device upgrade I was going to hold out and use Official, but with the IR 7.00 feature you mentioned, I will go and try out Simple again.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The memory breakdown that I did was based on the Slingbox upgrades, which doesn't have any version of the ReplayTV protocol built in, switching over to a 15-2117 the 2-byte upgrade is slightly smaller overall due to not needing a protocol upgrade.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sfhub wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out. I had no idea IR 7.00 did that. ...

I actually am running out of all memory. ....

Now that you pointed out IR 7.00 can dynamically use all memory available for any purpose,
That is NOT precisely what I said.

Only UPGRADES can spill over into the other (Keymove/Macro or Learning) memory areas, not vice versa. Keymoves/Macros, and Learning are still limited to those bounded areas within the EEPROM.

I'm not sure what your current setup is, but my FIRST suggestion to recover some memory would be to switch to using the extender, which will convert most of your Learning memory into Keymove/Macro memory (along with a host of other beneficial side effects-read the FAQ sticky post on Extenders in the applicable forum).

Even without that, if you post your IR file and link to it, someone may have a look and suggest some other memory-saving tricks that may not be apparent if you're too close to the issue.
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Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
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Amazon Firestick
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are running low on upgrade memory, I have come up with a better solution for your ReplayTV upgrades. If you add the following block of code to protocols.ini and then change the selected protocol to "ReplayTV (15-2116)" in RM, you will get an upgrade that's the smallest yet.

For anyone else reading this, please note that this protocol will ONLY work with the 15-2116 and 15-2117 remotes.

Code:
[ReplayTV (15-2116)]
PID=01 92
CmdTranslator=Translator(0,8,0)
CmdParms=OBC=0
Notes=official version hacked
DevParms=Device Code=1,Unit Code
DeviceTranslator=Translator(0,8,8) Translator(1,8,16)
FixedData=e0 01 00
DefaultCmd=00
CmdIndex=1
Code.S3C80=47 93 31 8B 13 CF 85 40 08 04 00 DE 00 00 00 00 00 CA 0D BF 05 35 01 A8 8D 7A 3B

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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
That is NOT precisely what I said.

Only UPGRADES can spill over into the other (Keymove/Macro or Learning) memory areas, not vice versa. Keymoves/Macros, and Learning are still limited to those bounded areas within the EEPROM.

I'm not sure what your current setup is, but my FIRST suggestion to recover some memory would be to switch to using the extender, which will convert most of your Learning memory into Keymove/Macro memory (along with a host of other beneficial side effects-read the FAQ sticky post on Extenders in the applicable forum).

Even without that, if you post your IR file and link to it, someone may have a look and suggest some other memory-saving tricks that may not be apparent if you're too close to the issue.

Thanks for correcting me on the actual feature. I was excited enough about the feature you pointed out that I didn't even realize you had posted the response and thought it was Rob.

I've been using the extender for quite a while. I have enough head room to play with now, after my more recent cut the fat device upgrade changes, creating mini versions of device upgrades where I don't really need all the functions.

I have another memory saving feature to move my discrete on/off onto the unused (in most device ugprades) volume buttons which would save keymove memory of 5-6 bytes (per keymove) and only increase device upgrade 1-2 bytes, but I haven't found a reason to do that until you mentioned they keymove memory saved could be used for device upgrades.

Unrelated to your post, but related to something Rob said that I picked up on another thread, I went ahead and mapped a function onto Fav/Scan which Rob mentioned was a feature they added to the Replay protocol. I didn't realize that doing so would increase the protocol size by 16 bytes. Previously I was handling it with a keymove which is only 5 bytes, so I had a net loss of 11 bytes. Rob never mentioned it as a memory saving technique, I just thought it might be so went ahead and tried it.

Another thing I didn't realize at first is the amount of device upgrade memory actually used, when you paste into IR, seems to be 4-bytes larger than what KM says the protocol size is, so in my memory analysis above, instead of the Simple protocol being only 3 bytes worse than the builtin, it actually is 7 bytes worse than the builtin (for my button mappings)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sfhub wrote:
Unrelated to your post, but related to something Rob said that I picked up on another thread, I went ahead and mapped a function onto Fav/Scan which Rob mentioned was a feature they added to the Replay protocol. I didn't realize that doing so would increase the protocol size by 16 bytes. Previously I was handling it with a keymove which is only 5 bytes, so I had a net loss of 11 bytes. Rob never mentioned it as a memory saving technique, I just thought it might be so went ahead and tried it.

We developed the fav/scan hack for the ReplayTV protocol back in the very early days of JP1, long before the extenders were invented. So the hack wasn't a memory saving technique, it was a "making it possible at all" technique. But you are correct that if you are using an extender, where programming the fav/scan button is as simple as programming a keymove, the protocol hack isn't needed.

sfhub wrote:
Another thing I didn't realize at first is the amount of device upgrade memory actually used, when you paste into IR, seems to be 4-bytes larger than what KM says the protocol size is, so in my memory analysis above, instead of the Simple protocol being only 3 bytes worse than the builtin, it actually is 7 bytes worse than the builtin (for my button mappings)

KM only reports the size of the upgrade blocks themselves, however when you add them to a remote, using IR.exe, you also need to add entries in the device upgrade list and (if needed) protocol entries list, so that accounts for the extra bytes used.

Let me know if you give my new upgrade a try.
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sfhub



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Posts: 287

                    
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Let me know if you give my new upgrade a try.

I'll definitely give it a try. I'm just rearranging some stuff right now and upgrading to IR 7. Didn't want to make too many changes all at once.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, if you use RM instead of KM, you get to specify that you are using the extender rdf. So in RM you CAN use the fav/scan key as you build your upgrade, whilst in KM you cannot - and have to build the keymove(s) manually in IR

(Oh by the way - when I run into such a problem, I just assign the function in KM to any unused keymoved key (like shift-1) and after it gets imported into IR, it's a simple edit to re-assign that keymove to the key you desire - like fav/scan).
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