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Extender Questions (was Toshiba CT-90047 upgrade)
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hlyi



Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:40 pm    Post subject: Extender Questions (was Toshiba CT-90047 upgrade) Reply with quote

NOTE: continued from the Toshiba CT-90047 upgrade question thread.

No macro support is pretty bad. Probably it doesn't worth doing the mod. So which remote you guys like most? 15-2116? urc-9660? Since I almost always do device upgrade anyway, I'd like to find a remote has a lot of re-mappable buttons.

Thanks,

-HY
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as how you have the remote, and the mod is pretty easy to do, you might as well do it. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't also get a real remote!

There's no URC-9660 remote, I'm guessing you mean the URC-9960 Kameleon. Personally, I don't recommend any of the Kameleons, but the 9960 is the best of them. I'd suggest that you pick from the 15-2116, 15-2117, URC-8811, URC-8910 and URC-9910. All of which are 8 device learning remotes. They all have LCD screens except the URC-8811, and two of them (the 15-2117 and URC-9910) have RF extenders.

If you decide to go with either the 8910 or 9910, be sure to get the new version, because the old version has a nasty "donut ring" construct instead of arrow buttons. (Just FYI, the HTPro that Surf Remote Control carries is the same remote as the 9910).

If you end up at Radio Shack, see if the 15-2117 is still on sale for $30, if it is, pick it up instead of the 15-2116, as they're the same price.
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hlyi



Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Rob.

I didn't know 15-2117 is on sale for $30. Hopefully, it's still on sale tomorrow. Based upon KM, urc-8811 only has 36 remappable buttons, and urc8910/9910 has 40 remappable buttons. It's not enough for my case. Probably, I will add eeprom to urc6131, it seems to have 45 remappable buttons, although it only supports 6 devices.

I just wish somebody would build a 15-1994-alike remote with >45 remappable buttons, supports >= 8 devices, support > 2k eeprom Wink
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hlyi wrote:
Based upon KM, urc-8811 only has 36 remappable buttons, and urc8910/9910 has 40 remappable buttons. It's not enough for my case. Probably, I will add eeprom to urc6131, it seems to have 45 remappable buttons, although it only supports 6 devices.


The "remappable" only tells whether the definitions can be included in the main body of the upgrade. Otherwise, you still can define them in KM or RM with the upgrade and they will go into the remote as KeyMoves. It makes no visible difference when you use the remote.

Without an extender, you are seriously limited both on the total number of KeyMoves and on which keys can have keymoves. But even without an extender, I think the KeyMove capability means the 8811 has more definable keys than thos others, not less.

With an extender, the limit on number of KeyMoves is much higher and the limit on which keys have keymoves is gone. I'm pretty sure the 8811 has the most keys, so with an extender it has the most keys you can define.

If you can solder well enough to add an eeprom, probably you can solder well enough to change one. In the unlikely event that even with an extender you run out of KeyMove memory in an 8811, you could change to a larger eeprom (you can't with those other models).
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usblipitor



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 516
Location: Greenbelt, MD

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

have them check the 15-2117 price at the register. At my local radio shack, they still have them priced at $49 on the little price card near where the remote hangs on the wall, but when you get to the register it comes up to $29. it is not a sale price. they have been this price for 6 months now. i think they are trying to sell them all, as they look old-fashioned compared with, say, the OFA8910, UEIHTPro, or the OFA6131. So you do not have to run right down to radio shack to catch the sale price is all I am saying.

My useless opinions: I have a 15-2117 and a 6131m. I don't much like the 15-2117 (heavy, useless LCD screen, useless RF doesnt work right, not enough buttons, no useful DVD buttons like audio or subtitle) as compared to the 6131m which I like a lot - lightweight, a lot of buttons, some with helpful labels like "PVR menu", angle, audio, subtitle, etc. Rob has them for sale here with the JP1 modifications already made (6 pin header and 2k eeprom).

Happy Holidays,
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hlyi wrote:
Based upon KM, urc-8811 only has 36 remappable buttons, and urc8910/9910 has 40 remappable buttons. It's not enough for my case. Probably, I will add eeprom to urc6131, it seems to have 45 remappable buttons, although it only supports 6 devices.

Don't compare the button lists in KM, compare the physical remotes themselves, you can click on the remotes in the following link to see enlargements of each remote:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/pictures-ofa.shtml

The 15-2117 actually has alot LESS buttons that either the 8811 or 8910 (which each have about the same number of buttons).

hlyi wrote:
I just wish somebody would build a 15-1994-alike remote with >45 remappable buttons, supports >= 8 devices, support > 2k eeprom Wink

The modified URC-6131 has plenty of buttons, comes with a 2k EEPROM and even though it only officially supports 6 devices, it actually supports 8! You can use macros to create the 7th and 8th device buttons, which you can place anywhere you like, such as on shifted device buttons or the two Tivo thumps up/down buttons, etc.
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hlyi



Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks y'all for the inputs.

One of reasons I like the RS remote is its rubber surface. I don't own URC 8910/8811/6131 yet, I don't know if their surface is as good as RS remote.

I did a quick search on battery life using extender, however, I didn't find answer . Would you commend on battery life for extenders?
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usblipitor



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hlyi wrote:
Would you commend on battery life for extenders?
I have found absolutely no difference in battery life between extended and unextended remotes.
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hlyi,

You might elaborate on why you are looking for so many buttons and what you are trying to do.

In my case I use macros to set every mode that I want to be in and I don't need many buttons, yet I am controlling 13 devices with a 15-1994. I still have plenty of memory in the stock 2KB EEPROM (but I do use an extender).

I am sure many people here can give you suggestions that might be useful even such that you may be able to use your existing remote.

BTW, I have not heard of anyone having battery life problems with any of the extenders unless they program some sort of loop in a macro.
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usblipitor



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon_armstrong wrote:
... yet I am controlling 13 devices with a 15-1994 ...

Whoa.. go Jon!

Hey hlyi (what kind of name is that?),
Have you looked at this design ? It uses macros similar to what Jon is talking about (I think).

Happy New Year,
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hlyi



Joined: 25 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think I need to re-learn what extender can do nowadays. I'm an old timer on jp1 group (back to jan. 2001), at that time, if I remember correctly, the extender can't redefinition key move and device upgrade areas in eeprom, resulting very limited number of key move and device upgrade. Since I uses quite a few devices don't have built-in codes in 15-1994, I found myself always creating own device upgrades and key moves, it used up 15-1994 eeprom pretty quickly. A 15-1994 is just about enough to host my 8-device system.

Since I got devices have 40+ buttons on their remotes, I'd like to find a unviseral remote allowing me to directly access all functionalities like their own remotes do (not using shift key).
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory an extender should slightly increase power consumption while the remote is in use, but I haven't heard of anyone being able to measure the difference.

If I made certain easy to make and hard to test for mistakes in coding the extender, an extender would increase power consumption while the remote is left idle. If I didn't make THOSE mistakes, it should have zero impact on idle power draw. Crude testing says idle power draw isn't increased.

I use rechargeable alkaline batteries for remotes. I usually recharge them well before they need it. When I forget to recharge for a while, a 15-2104 with extender will show signs of needing a recharge after a few months. The URC6800 with extender I used to use went a lot further on one recharge, but I'm probably using the same batteries and rechargeable alkalines gradually lose capacity.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hlyi wrote:
at that time, if I remember correctly, the extender can't redefinition key move and device upgrade areas in eeprom,


Redefining the key move area is one of the hardest things to do among the things extenders have done. But there are now a bunch of different extenders that do it, because KeyMove area is limited to begin with and extenders increase what you can do with keymoves and macros, making the original limits even more unreasonable. So it was an important feature to add.

I don't want to start ANOTHER long discussion about redefining the upgrade area: Extenders generally don't. IR.exe could but doesn't. Having more KeyMove area decreases the amount you would want more upgrade area, because you are less likely to want a big combo upgrade as a way to save a few keymoves.

hlyi wrote:
A 15-1994 is just about enough to host my 8-device system.


Unless you've done the absurd level of tuning Rob did, that which fits at all non extender in a 15-1994 will fit trivially with any extender that increases KeyMove space in a 2K eeprom.

hlyi wrote:
Since I got devices have 40+ buttons on their remotes, I'd like to find a unviseral remote allowing me to directly access all functionalities like their own remotes do (not using shift key).


I think 8 devices of 40+ buttons will fit in a typical 2K eeprom with extender. You might want to nail it down more accurately, by using KM or RM to define all the upgrades you would want including puting all the right functions on the right buttons whether those can be in the upgrade body or not. Then see how many bytes of upgrade and how many bytes of KeyMove you got. There's an outside chance you'll discover that it doesn't fit, then you might decide you need an 8810 with the eeprom changed.
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hlyi,

Just for comparison purposes on my 1994 that controls the 13 devices, I have 6 device upgrades, 4 protocol upgrades, 16 macros, 52 key moves and I have 293 bytes of key move /macro memory remaining and 378 bytes of upgrade memory remaining (running extender 3).

Steve,

I think Rob was controlling 15 devices at last count so I am no role model Smile
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I need to buy more toys. I'm expert at things like getting a 15-2104 to support more than 8 devices, but I don't need to.

2 TV's
1 Cable tuner
4 VCRs, but two are the same

Even though the camcorder needs a seperate device for playback than for use as a camcorder (or the button assignments would be too counterintuitive) that still adds up to just 8 devices.

We watch DVDs so rarely I couldn't justify buying a DVD (nor the stupid IR receiver to remote control the game system when used as a DVD player).
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