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Need help with IR repeater from Gateway.
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e34m5



Joined: 14 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Need help with IR repeater from Gateway. Reply with quote

I purchased an IR repeater of EBAY just to see if I could get it to work. Of course it doesn't but not for the obvious reasons. What it doesn't do is understand the signal from the remote.

The internals are as follows:

Main board: COMPUTIME ULW1 REV.3
Main Chip: SC501055P

It appears to me that it does not recognize the frequency used by the remote.

It was originally sold by Gateway as a companion to their A/V PC's. It clearly states in the instructions that it should work....alas...it doesn't

Any ideas are welcomed.

More info: That back says it was manufactured by UEI for Gateway.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What remote are you trying to use with it?
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e34m5



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried with URC-1067 as well as the original OEM remote. The unit has a plug in emiiter which is what I needed to control the audio device that I have behinf closed doors.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe the 1067 is an RF remote. It would seem to me that the repeater would need an RF-capable remote like a 9910 or RS 15-2117 (assuming it's compatable with the UEI models).

Is the OEM remote by any chance a JP1 remote? There was a Gateway branded TV remote that we have an RDF for (CA48C480 (Gateway TV remote).rdf).
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e34m5



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not an RF receiver. It is an IR receiver. Not sure why you mention RF in this case.

As I mentioned before the item was designed to work with standard remotes.
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Mark Pierson
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e34m5 wrote:
Not sure why you mention RF in this case.
My fault... when you said "IR repeater" I was thinking of the UEI RF to IR extenders like the 9910 and 2117 use. Apparently this device is something different?
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e34m5



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No prob. I'm thinking that there must be something with the frequency it can receive. My recollection is that this can be cotrolled via a resistor on the circuitry.

But, I do not know enough about this board to make any changes.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Paul is describing is a typical IR repeater, like those sold under the brand name "Powermid" and like the little pyramids that Radio SHack used to sell. These things have two parts, the first unit receives the IR signal and converts it into RF and the second unit receives the RF and converts it into IR. These units are subject to the same interference that the RF portion of the URC-9910 and 15-2117 remotes are, so they're not always that reliable.

It's also possible that the Gateway remote is sending a signal that's two far out of the range of what they can handle (ie, a high carrier freq).

Paul, have you tried using the repeater for any other devices? Especially devices that you know use normal (eg, NEC) IR signals.
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e34m5



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thing is more like one half of those pyramid types. Namely the half that has the emitters plugged into it.

I've tried every remote in the house (some 20). I am surprised it doesn't work since the info I found said it was specificaly made for this operation.

I was hoping that some one would have some info and be able to share with me the magic answer Wink

This is the description from Gateway -

Gateway P/N: 7001019 (IR Controller); 8001425 IR Repeater Cable.
Originally designed for use on Gateway Destination PC (via serial port). This infrared (IR) controller lets you use your remote mouse and keyboard to control other A/V devices such as a VCR, Laserdisc player, etc.

The Repeater Cable sends infrared (IR) signals to external (A/V) devices that are not receiving IR Controller signals properly. It has a 1/8-inch jack that connects to the port on the rear of the controller unit. The IR LED is placed in close proximity of another IR device for better connection.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard of a device that is just one of these pyramids, are you sure you got the whole thing? I bet you just got the 2nd half of the set that I described earlier.

The Gateway remote hasn't got anything to do with the IR repeater that you're asking questions about, right?
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e34m5



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the problem is with the frequencies. This thing was designed to be used with remote keyboards and mice not TV remotes.

So, if I could figure out how to modify it for the correct freqs then I am golden...

Any ideas....
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I suspect that Rob and John cannot wrap their heads around (and me too, for that matter) is specifically what does this device do?

You are saying that it is a single box (or pyramid, or whatever) that RECEIVES an IR signal, and then RE-TRANSMITS that same IR signal via attached wired IR repeaters ("blasters") that you position to target your audio device IR receiver. Is that correct?

If so, it is rather unusual since that type of repeater usually (as described by Rob above) has ONE box that RECEIVES the IR and re-transmits it via RF, and the second box RECEIVES the RF and transmits the reconstructed IR either directly from the box, or via attached IR "blasters" or both.

If you are 100% certain that your device is the former (and not just one half of a pair of the latter), then apparently nobody has any experience with such a device here.
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e34m5



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is similar to this device..

http://www.hometech.com/infrared/rcvrs.html#XA-29110

As you can see this is designed to work the same as the one I reference.
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Tommy Tyler
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,

Sorry for all the confusion about your repeater. If there's one thing the infrared remote control community has suffered from over the years it's confusing terminology. The devices mentioned by the other members that consist of a pickup unit that converts the IR signal into a UHF signal, and a receiver unit that converts the UHF signal back into IR, are most often referred to as "extenders". They are commonly used to "extend" the range of a remote in situations where there is no line-of-sight. Usually that means room to room, but they can also be used to reach equipment behind closed doors in the same room.

You correctly identified your device at the start as a "repeater", which is a device used where there IS line-of sight. These are used (with certain precautions) to extend the range of a remote where shooting distance is excessive, as well as to control equipment behind closed cabinet doors or in closets.

I have examined and reverse engineered a number of these devices, including units manufactured by Xantech, Buffalo, and HotLink Pro. They all consist of a very sensitive, high-frequency optical pickup, a high gain amplifier, and an output for driving an infrared LED. None of them use the ubiquitous 3-terminal receiver/demodulator devices commonly used in consumer products. Those are manufactured for specific carrier frequencies, such as 38, 40, 43, or 56KHz, and their sensitivity suffers from carrier frequency mismatch. A good repeater amplifies and re-transmits each individual LED pulse, thereby making them indifferent to carrier frequency (within limits). Since you have tried 20 different remotes, it is highly unlikely your problem is carrier frequency mismatch.

So why do repeaters usually specify a usable range of carrier frequencies? I think that results from deliberately limiting their amplifier bandwidth to avoid noise problems. To be able to receive feeble IR signals over long distances, repeaters use amplifiers with humongous gain, and high gain often means noise problems. The pickup device and amplifier components are always enclosed in a small metal box or other shield, and even with shielding you sometimes have to relocate the receiver away from TV screens or other sources of radiated electrical noise. I too seem to remember a brand of repeater that had a resistor that could be changed to modify the frequency range, but I can't put my finger on it.

One of the most important precautions to take with repeaters (and extenders too, for that matter) is to avoid feedback between the LED that plugs into the output, and the sensitive receiver. The situation is analogous to audio feedback in a public address system. Crudely speaking, a sound at the microphone is amplified and blasted out of a loudspeaker. If enough of the speaker output gets back to the microphone, it is amplified further and broadcast again. This process loops around and builds up to the point where the public address system is rendered useless by a continual squeal caused by oscillation between input and output.

Likewise, if the IR pickup can see even a tiny sample of the output signal (bounced off walls or passed through glass cabinet doors) it can become frozen in helpless oscillation. That's one reason most repeaters have a visible LED to indicate when an IR signal is being received from a remote. If this LED is on or flashing when you are not firing a remote at it, you're in trouble.

If you would like for me to take a look at your device, send me a P.M. and I'll give you a mailing address.

Tommy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e34m5 wrote:
It is similar to this device..

http://www.hometech.com/infrared/rcvrs.html#XA-29110

As you can see this is designed to work the same as the one I reference.

That helps explain what you've got. So basically, you have an "IR Receiver" like this...



which is connected by a wire to a "connecting block" like this...



Then, you plug "IR Blasters" into the connecting block in order to complete the path of the IR signal to the devices that you wish to control. Does this correctly describe how you have your repeater hooked up?


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