JP1 Remotes

[mwm]

Maybe I'm really confused, and it doesn't matter. I don't want a remote so I can spend time hacking on the remote; I want a remote that gives me near-absolute control over how the remote behaves. Yes, that requires that I spend time hacking on the remote configuration, but that's largely time wasted. JP1 is attractive because it seems to be the only option left that gives me that, at least without treating me like a crook.

The problem is, all the JP1 documentation I've found is centered around the hacking activity, none of it seems to be centered around the using activity. I can find out model numbers and memory capacities and what type of JP1 connector (if any) a remote has - but none of that helps me pick a remote that I want to use instead of hack on.

Example one: My HT system has 12 devices in it. Any remote with fewer than 12 device buttons would seem to be either useless, or something to avoid because I'm going to wind up using strange buttons to represent devices. Unless it's got an LCD and buttons that can be used to list devices (or activities/pages/modes/whatever). Example 2: I want hard transport control buttons. For pretty much anything else I can live with soft buttons, but not those. But the only way to figure out which JP1 remotes are worth looking at is to get the list of model numbers, and google for those hoping I stumble across a review or some other page with an image or description. That seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

Maybe I've managed to miss the link to the page I want, and someone will kindly provide a pointer?

Maybe I've missed the whole point of JP1, and somebody will point out a good description of the philosophy that I've missed. The "How to" guides discuss how to upgrade/reconfigure remotes, but not how to use these abilities to deal with issues like not enough device buttons, etc. intelligently.

[The Robman]

I guess we pretty much assume that people know how to use a remote, just as long as it controls all of their devices. If you have any un-usual devices, there's a good chance that most universal remotes will lack the code for at least one of them, which is the first reason that most people turn to JP1.

Once you've got over that hurdle, JP1 also gives you many opportunities to fine tune your remote so that it does exactly what you want.

You say that you have 12 devices, are they all stand alone devices or are some of them devices that help you use other devices?

For example, do you have a video selector? While you may watch a VCR or a DVD player, I doubt that you would ever watch a video selector, therefore you wouldn't need a stand alone device button for it. As long as the remote is able to control the video selector, your macros can make sure that it's turned on when needed and switched to the correct input.

I have 13 devices in my system and I control them all using the 7 device 15-1994 remote. My IR file is included in the IR.exe zip file as an example, it's called FromRob.ir

There are several ways you can incorporate 12 devices into a single remote. For example, do you have a CD player and a stereo receiver? If so, you could combine both of them under a single device button, where the numeric buttons and the transport buttons work the CD player and the volume buttons and most of the other buttons work the receiver.

Do you have 2 of anything, like 2 VCRs or 2 DVD players? If so, you could use the device multiplexor to stack 2 units onto a single device button.

Maybe you should just list all of your devices and give a brief description of how you use them and we can give you some ideas.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[mwm]

It's not so much "how to use a remote", as it's "how to use JP1 to set up a remote so I can use it the way I want to." This has two different aspects: 1) Picking a remote that will do that, and 2) Using the JP1 tools configure it. #1 means finding one with button sets/layouts that I think will work, which is what I was really looking for. But that ties back to #2, because the capabilities of the software dictate what hardware will and won't be sufficient.

The intro docs all seem oriented towards the "add a code or device" type thing. If that's what I were interested in, they'd be great. But I'm more interested in the fine tuning aspect, and that's what I didn't find (again, if I overlooked it, pointers would be appreciated). I assumed I could control multiple devices with one "device" on the remote, as otherwise this wouldn't be interesting at all. On the other hand, the device stacking I haven't heard of at all, and that could make a serious difference in which remotes I can use.

So let's see...

Sony STR-DE998 A/V Receiver. Pretty much always on.
RAC R52WM24 monitor. Used for anything that needs a display.
Sony SLV-660HF VCR.
Sony DVP-NS50P DVD player.
DirecTivo R-10 PVR.
Mac Mini w/ Apples builtin IR.
Miglia TV Mini HD PVR (connected to Mac Mini).
Impact Acoustics 3-Play switch.
Toshiba HD-D1KN HD-DVD (tied through the 3-play).
PS3 w/ PS2 IR receiver bluray player (tied through the 3-play).
Velodyne DLS-5000R subwoofer.
Lutron Maestro light control.

The 3-play could well be integrated into the two devices that it's connected to. The Lutron should be integrated with pretty much everything - in fact, it's the reason I'm looking at new remotes. I want the lights to turn on if I hit "Pause" or "Eject" or "Look up actor on IMDB" and to turn off for "Play" and "Back to the movie". There are three things that look like DVD players, so maybe those are candidates for stacking (google turns up nought on that functionality, except a pointer to a paragraph describing who invented it).

The last issue is controlling zone 2 on the 998. If I can do that with the same remote as all of this, cool. If not - Sony learning remotes retail for $25...

Thanks,
Mike

[vickyg2003]

mwm,

If you are not interested in doing the hacking yourself, I'd suggest you stick with a JP1 remote. The JP1.2 remote tools are still under-developed.

Selecting a remote is a very personal thing. There is a lot to the look and feel that makes.

I have an assortment of the JP1 remotes. My current model remotes are the 8011's, 6011's, 6131's, 8811's, 8910's. These remotes all have really nice extenders which make them very customizable.

These all have pros and cons.

Learning is a really important feature for a JP1 user. If you have weird items in your home theater you'll find a learning remote to be very useful 8811's and 8910's have learning.

Size The 8811's and 8910's are 9x2 inches. The 8011's 6011's 6131 are 7x1.75 inches. The 6131N is a longer, but I don't have one of those to measure.

Device control the 8011's, 8811 and the 8910 all have 8 pressable device keys. The 6131, 6131N, 6012 all have 6 pressable device keys.

Back lighting the 601x, 8011, 8811 and 8910 all have back lighting.

LCD the 8910 has an LCD that tells you which device you are controlling. Its really a big help if you are doing tasks that require lots of changing devices.

Modifications the 8011's, 601x, 6131's all need to have eeproms and connector pins added to be JP1 remotes. Rob usually has modified remotes for sale.

Buttons the number of buttons varies by model.

As for handeling more devices, if you need all the keys for a device many of these remote extenders have multiplexers. Or if you only need one or two functions you may be able to handle these with keymoves.

[unclemiltie]

Liz gve you a lot of info on remotes, I'll add my few cents:

You have a couple of PVR's, I'd focus on the remotes that have the PVR keys on them. For example, the 6131 is well suited to the PVR (and to the Tivo with the thumbs-up/down keys) But, the remote is only a 6-device remote.

I think you have to really start to think about not "number of devices" but number of things I want to do. For example, in my family room, the DVD button turns a bunch of things on, sets inputs, and sets up the keysets for device control, etc. I really don't CARE about what devices just got tweaked, I just care that the next time I push play, my DVD player starts and the sound comes from where I want it.

In general, I think you're going to want to pick a remote with a good extender since the highly customized features you're going to be looking for will likely only be available on an extender.

If the room is dark, you may want to consider a remote with a backlight.


Oh, and finally, the reason that you see lots of stuff here about devices and upgrades because that's where you start to think about moving keys around to places where they didn't used to be. You'll need at least one learning remote so that you can at least learn the commands from your original remotes but that doesn't have to be the one that you use every day. Search the files area for upgrades that already exist for the devices you have.


good luck, it's addictive!

-bill

[The Robman]

The reason that you're not finding too much "beginner" type documentation for the stuff you're looking for is because people don't normally getting into the advanced stuff until they've first become more familiar with JP1. But suffice to say, you can use JP1 to make a remote do everything that you want.

It seems like you have 8 devices that need to be controlled:

1) AUDIO: Sony STR-DE998 A/V Receiver. Pretty much always on.
2) VCR: Sony SLV-660HF VCR.
3) DVD1: Sony DVP-NS50P DVD player.
4) DVD2: Toshiba HD-D1KN HD-DVD (tied through the 3-play).
5) PVR: DirecTivo R-10 PVR.
6) Mac Mini & Miglia TV Mini HD PVR (connected to Mac Mini).
7) HOME: Lutron Maestro light control.
8) GAME: PS3 w/ PS2 IR receiver bluray player (tied through the 3-play).

Then you have accessories that are used to assist using those devices:

1) RAC R52WM24 monitor. Used for anything that needs a display.
2) Impact Acoustics 3-Play switch.
3) Velodyne DLS-5000R subwoofer.

What sort of controls do you need for the monitor, other than turning it on and selecting the right input? Do you need any picture controls or anything like that? If not, the monitor doesn't need to take up a device button.

I don't know how many different buttons you need to control the Mac and the Miglia, so I'm only guessing that one device button will be sufficient.

You could use the "Device Multiplexor" to stack both the DVD and the HD-DVD onto a single device button, which would reduce your device button requirement down to 7, which might be useful if you need seperate device buttons for the Mac and the Miglia.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[mwm]

[mwm]

[Capn Trips]

[Ellen]

In addition to what the Capn recommends, I suggest going to the One For All web site and downloading the PDF manuals for the remotes that you are considering. They contain line drawings of the remotes that, to me, show a much better and more readable view of button layout. Print out one for each remote you think you might want to try and lay them out side by side to compare.

[The Robman]

None of the JP1 remotes have soft buttons, at least not the way you mean. If you really want soft buttons, you should look at remotes like the MX-500 and the Philips Pronto, but they are alot more expensive than a JP1 remote.

Many people have programmed remotes to work systems pretty much like yours, so it's totally possible. I would recommend a remote like the One For All URC-8910. I sell this remote for $20. You would also need a JP1 cable, which is $15 if you have a parallel port and $35 if you need the USB version. Shipping is $4.

The URC-8910 has an LCD screen that tells you what mode the remote is in, but it ony has hard buttons, so you're stuck with the labels that are on the remote. Almost every JP1 user has come across the situation where they have a button that has no logical equivilent on the JP1 remote, this is where a little imagination is called for. The trick is to find a button for the function that you can remember when it comes time to use it. We have alot of experience with this, so we can help you with ideas when you get to that point.

You say that you need a few buttons in certain modes to control the monitor, therefore I would recommend using keymoves to place those functions into the modes that need them. That way you don't need to waste a device button on the monitor. If the Mac and the Miglia each need transport keys, then you could either use seperate device buttons for them or you could stack two setup codes onto a single device button using the "Device Multiplexor".
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[lwt42]

I have the same kind of general question as mwm.

I've been extremely lucky to pick things that simply aren't represented on any one of the "universal" remotes supplied by any of the devices I have:

Viewsonic 3760w
DISH PVR 625
Apex 660 DVD (to be replaced)
Older SONY VCR (also to be replaced)

Less important:

Sony CD changer & Yamaha amp.

This is what brought me to JP1 programming and the 8910 (I have a new one on order from Rob).

I'm not entirely happy with the 8910 layout with the 625 -- It's okay, but I'm almost tempted to go with a 6131n.

My minor grumble is: there is a gap between the highly technical information (like how to load and program an extender) and the basic (which remote has nice PVR buttons, or why would I want an extender).

... and I understand why the gap exists: the highly technical stuff is fun, but it makes the learning curve steeper for those of us who are more casual about JP1.

[mwm]

[greenough1]

Hi Mwm,
I was where your are now a couple years ago. If you want computer programmability and soft buttons ala MX-500 (and it's much more expensive relative), you're going to spend more than a couple hundred dollars (check out surfremote.com for some remotes).

I looked at the harmony remotes and while I liked the remote layout, you're stuck with a web-based remote configuration model, i.e. to tweak your remote, you have to get onto the web and use their tool to configure your remote.

I initially had issues with the absense of soft buttons and faced with having to decide where a particular button should go that would have a vague association with it's actual meaning. This just requires a bit of trial and error. I predict you'd find that the buttons you use the most will finally end up where you (and the rest of the family) can remember what they are and what they do. I also predict that when you need a button that you've forgotten where it is, you can find it pretty quickly, or can refer to the nice cheat sheets that get made in RM (one of the remote config tools).

What finally hooked me on the jp1 approach, was as written above, I have COMPLETE control over all my gear, the remote works the way I want it to, not the way some other software designer decided it should work. Best of all, it's cheap and this forum has probably the highest level of technical expertise you'll find anywhere. If an answer exists, you'll get it here.

I would not recommend the 6131 PVR remote since it's not backlite. I'd go with the 8910. For such a small investment, might it be worth it just to try it? I eased into jp1 and bought an 8811 plus cable. My intent was to use the 8811 as a learner for an MX-500. Needless to say, I never moved off of the 8811. I bougt a bunch of 6011's for the kid's playroom and the master (6011 uses the same setups as the 8811 in a much smaller form factor).

Best,
jeff

[The Robman]