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Anything over 8 devices?
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zymurgist



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:53 pm    Post subject: Anything over 8 devices? Reply with quote

I love my JP1 remotes, but my HT keeps growing devices (as my wallet grows thinner). Are there any JP1 remotes that can control 10 devices?
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jamesgammel
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of them. The key is using either the device toggler protocol, or the multiplexor protocol. Both found in the special protocols spreadsheet.

Jim
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zymurgist



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You lost me. There a how-to on this?
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a "readme" with the special protocols spreadsheet. Try starting there. As you select one of the special protocols you'll also get some guidance and instructions.

Jim
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure no JP1 remote has full support, including KeyMoves, for more than 8 devices. Some models seem to have device slots for more than 8 devices. I haven't seen (or haven't understood) descriptions of how to make good use of those extra device slots (such as how best to define keys for the device selection step).

I think Jim is correct that the device toggler or device multiplexor (depending on which UI you want) protocol is a good general solution. It also gives you pretty much everything that having more than 8 real devices would give you, EXCEPT for seperate keymoves. Even in a remote with more than 8 device slots, the device multiplexor might be easier to set up than actually using the extra device slots.

While the 8810 doesn't have extra device slots, I suggest that model if you want to control 10 devices, because it has lots of buttons (I think that helps if you have a lot of devices). It has a good extender for increasing the amount of memory available for all the macros and keymoves you probably want in order to manage the switching among 10 devices (not to imply that the extenders that others have writen based on that one are lacking in that feature). I find the fact that it has 8 keys in the transport set rather than the usual 6 particularly helpful in transport punch through configurations. I expect with 10 devices, more than one of them must be a transport type device: VCR, DVD, etc.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There aren't any JP1 remotes with native support for more than 8 devices, however like Jim said, with some clever programming you can make your remote support more devices than that.

For example, you could use the "Device Combiner" to combine your CD player and your receiver into one setup code. You can use both the "Device Multiplexor" and the "Device Toggler" to stack multiple upgrades onto a single device button. Plus, if you have any video selectors, or devices like that, which just serve to aid other devices and don't need to be treated as actual devices themselves, you can spread the functions around the device modes that need them using either learning or keymoves.
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zymurgist



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been trying to get the device toggler working on my URC9800, but its not working. There wasn't a protocol string in the instructions, so I tried them all. No good. Its really what I needed since I need to swap my Cable box and Satelite box. Any ideas?

ken
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jamesgammel
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOW you tell us you have a 9800. The special protocols spreadsheet is for S3C8 remotes. You need the special protocols for 740 chip remotes. Files>special protocols>740 special protocols.

Jim
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Special Protocols spreadsheet is just for S3C8 remotes. The URC-9800 "Producer 8" is a 740 remote. ('740' and 'S3C8' refer to the processors used in the remote).

There's a sub-folder in the "Special Protocols" folder dedicated to special protocols for 740 remotes, here's the URL:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Special Protocols/740 Special Protocols/

The good news is that there is a device-toggler written for the 740. Here's the protocol upgrade for the URC-9800:

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 FD (P8/740)
00 00 31 A6 A7 A5 5D 55 84 95 84 A5 5E 55 8C 95
8C A5 5F 55 94 95 94 60
End

Read the instructions in the file to see how to use it.
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zymurgist



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help. I'm having a little trouble with the instructions:
Quote:
You must substitute the proper values in place of the xx's above. To calculate those bytes, you have to know the codes of the devices you want to use. To do that load IR.exe and go to the Raw Data sheet. Under the "Device Addresses" box you'll see the three numbers per device (Hi, Lo, Type). Typically these addresses are 26, 1E, and 2E (slightly different on Maestro II). Look in the raw dump at those three addresses and record the value of those three bytes.

My Raw Data sheet is columns and rows of hex numbers (IR 4.01). There's no "Hi,Lo,Type" identifiers. What am I doing wrong?

Also:
Quote:
Now all that remains is to assign this device code to a button on the desired device using the Advanced Codes tab of IR. The advanced code or hex command you enter doesn't matter. Also make sure the device is initially assigned to one of the two codes you want to swap between.

I do not have an "Advanced Code" tab in IR.

ken
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gjarboni
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Joined: 20 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zymurgist wrote:
Thanks for your help. I'm having a little trouble with the instructions:
Quote:
You must substitute the proper values in place of the xx's above. To calculate those bytes, you have to know the codes of the devices you want to use. To do that load IR.exe and go to the Raw Data sheet. Under the "Device Addresses" box you'll see the three numbers per device (Hi, Lo, Type). Typically these addresses are 26, 1E, and 2E (slightly different on Maestro II). Look in the raw dump at those three addresses and record the value of those three bytes.

My Raw Data sheet is columns and rows of hex numbers (IR 4.01). There's no "Hi,Lo,Type" identifiers. What am I doing wrong?

Also:
Quote:
Now all that remains is to assign this device code to a button on the desired device using the Advanced Codes tab of IR. The advanced code or hex command you enter doesn't matter. Also make sure the device is initially assigned to one of the two codes you want to swap between.

I do not have an "Advanced Code" tab in IR.

ken


Okay, answering the last question first (because it's easy) Advanced Codes was an old synonym for Key Moves. The reason this is confusing is because when the Device Toggler was written, IR was at version 2 (or maybe earlier) so things are a lot different.

As for the Hi, Lo, and Type they are memory locations 26,1E, & 2E for Cable mode. That's Row 0020 Column 06, Row 0010 Column E, & Row 0020 Column 0E.

The easiest way to find these values is to set the cable device to whatever device type and device code you want to switch to. Note the values in 26,1E, & 2E. Plug them into the upgrade.

I had a good deal of trouble getting this to work (and I've been doing this a while) so if you are still stuck, post a copy of your remote download (from IR) in the Diagnosis Area @ Yahoo and I'll take a look.
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zymurgist



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:41 am    Post subject: So Close Reply with quote

I have the protocol loaded and I am able to switch between devices. The problem is that when I switch to Cable, none of the buttons send a signal. I have uploaded my download to the diagnosis area. zymurgist-9800.txt

tks,
ken
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gjarboni
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: So Close Reply with quote

zymurgist wrote:
I have the protocol loaded and I am able to switch between devices. The problem is that when I switch to Cable, none of the buttons send a signal. I have uploaded my download to the diagnosis area. zymurgist-9800.txt

tks,
ken

I had a little trouble figuring out which device you were trying to switch to, so I may be off. I uploaded a file to the diagnosis area:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/zymurgist-9800-gjarboni.txt

There were two things wrong. First, the protocol Rob posted was the device toggler (which is even more complicated than the device multiplexer -- the one you want). Here's the link to the device multiplexer:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Special%20Protocols/740%20Special%20Protocols/740-device-multiplexer.txt

Second, I couldn't figure out what device you wanted to switch to. I made an educated guess that you wanted to switch the CBL/SAT button to SAT/0392 (because that wasn't assigned and there were no keymoves to it). I set up device CBL 2001 to switch to SAT/0392 (keymove: shift-swap) and CBL 2002 to switch to CBL/1477 (keymove: shift-move). To switch the CBL button back to SAT/0775, I have CBL/2003 (keymove: move).

Remember, to access shift-move and shift-swap, press the "setup" key (release it), then press the swap/move key.

Let me know how it goes.
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zymurgist



Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I should explain what I need before we go any further. I would like to have my cbl/sat button switch between sat/0775 (dish) and cbl/1477 (sci atlanta).

What do I need to do?
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: So Close Reply with quote

gjarboni wrote:
the protocol Rob posted was the device toggler (which is even more complicated than the device multiplexer -- the one you want).


In many ways the device toggler is simpler than device multiplexor. Nothing in this thread tells me which one zymurgist wants. Do you see something I'm missing or are you just making an assumption?

Which of the two is better depends on how you want to use it.

Say you want a single KeyMove in CBL mode that toggles the CBL setup code between SAT/0775 and CBL/1477. When you push the CBL button it simply returns you to whichever of those two was selected last. It is up to the user to remember which is selected and to press the toggle command when he wants to switch. That of course would use the toggler protocol.

Say you want two different global macros. One always switches you to SAT/0775 (by both switching the device mode to CBL and switching the CBL setup code to SAT/0775) and the other to CBL/1477. So those two macros seem to the user like two unrelated device select keys. In that case you want the multiplexor protocol.

In the abstract, it seems clear that the second is simpler for the user, but depending on how the two devices are used and how short of extra buttons the remote might be, the first might actually be simpler.
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