JP1 Remotes

The Polaroid DRM-2001G is a brand new HDD DVDR sold at WalMart for $219. There is no UEIC code set available. So I need to use the Learning function to transfer the Polaroid remote codes to my 8910 and then use JP1 to build a new code set.

I have the JP1 cable. I have read as much of JP1 - Beginners as I can understand in one sitting. There is so much information that I have become confused. I just need to do the Learning function to create the code set for now. I would appreciate all the assistance you can provide.

The very first question is how do I connect the JP1 cable to the 8910. It appears there are two possible orientations.

I have loaded all the files onto my computer which is running Win2K Pro with SP4:

IR620.zip
RDFs for IR and RM Version 1.25.zip
keymap-master.zip
DecodeIR.dll in c:\WINNT\System32

I have also set the RDF path in IR.exe.

Can you point me to the relevant section(s) of the instructions so I can get on with the Learning function?

Thanks

Citizen Bob wrote: The very first question is how do I connect the JP1 cable to the 8910. It appears there are two possible orientations.

As I answered you over at RemoteCentral:

If you connect it backwards, it cannot harm your remote, it will merely not work. Just turn it around and try again. Usually, the cables are constructed such that when plugged into the remote, the cable tends to the BOTTOM end of the remote - AWAY from the IR transmitter LED, but it really depends on how the cable was assembled, and there are no industry standards for that.

Citizen Bob wrote: Can you point me to the relevant section(s) of the instructions so I can get on with the Learning function?

Try starting with section 6 (How do I build an upgrade from scratch) in THIS GUIDE

For any experts seeing this thread for the first time. It is a continuation of
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mb ... cgi?5101,1

For orienting the cable: With the 8910 face down (button side down) and the end nearer the 6-pin connector closer to you, pin 1 of the connector is on the left side. Some other models of JP1 remote label pin one but the 8910 (at least mine) doesn't.

In the cable itself: Some cables have a stripe, usually red, on the pin one side. Some cables have a little triangle of very slightly raised plastic modeled into the 6 pin connector at the pin one side. Most JP1 cables are built so that when it is plugged in with pin one on the left (as described above) the cable comes out toward you (rather than toward the batteies in an 8910).

I'm not sure which of those features your cable has to identify pin one. If none of that helps, just try it. All the other experts claim that plugged backwards it just fails to work; It doesn't do any lasting harm.

When testing the cable and once you have it working, you want to start with the operation "Download From Remote" on the "Remote" menu of IR.EXE. Once that works, you will have an image of the remote's EEPROM in IR.exe. Then use "Save As" in the file menu to put that into a .ir file that you should keep as the original contents of your EEPROM as they were before you started using JP1. As you understand things and/or ask more questions you might want to retrieve things from that file.

I didn't read the other thread carefully enough to see whether you already learned the signals you want to decode. If not, you probably should make room by using IR's Learned Signals tab to delete any unrelated learned signals you have (they will still be in the file you saved above). Then upload the image back to the 8910, do the learning on the 8910, download back to IR.exe, save the result in a different .ir file, look on the Learned Signals tab for decodes, report the results back here for more help.

Capn Trips wrote:
As I answered you over at RemoteCentral

That forum is slow to post. I finally saw your answer.

But we can work on this forum if that suits you.

As mentioned I put all those applications on my computer and set the RDF directory.

Try starting with section 6 (How do I build an upgrade from scratch) in THIS GUIDE

I will do that. But for now I am more interested in getting my 8910 working for that Polaroid unit . What I am saying is that I need specific help - cookbook help - to get on with this project.

I believe the newest UEIC remotes use flash memory which allows them to Learn an entire remote without running out of memory, as happened with the 8910. I also believe that as a result of this, there is no JP1 connection available. So I do not want to invest too much time in JP1 if it is going to become obsolete soon.

Thanks.

The newest UEIC remotes use flash memory, most of which is dedicated to the built-in setup codes and designed never to be changed. The amount they let you use for learning varies by model. The most is three times the learning capacity of your 8910. I think that is still not enough to do everything by learning.

Those new remotes use a JP1.2 cable, so what you invested in the JP1 cable is lost if you switch. But the JP1 software has been enhanced to work with JP1.2 so whatever time you invest in learning JP1 software wouldn't be wasted if you switch to JP1.2

For that cookbook help you want, start by following the instructions I put in the third post of this thread.

Citizen Bob wrote:

Capn Trips wrote:Try starting with section 6 (How do I build an upgrade from scratch) in THIS GUIDE

I will do that. But for now I am more interested in getting my 8910 working for that Polaroid unit . What I am saying is that I need specific help - cookbook help - to get on with this project.

The link that you just dismissed **is** the cook-book that you need.

The Robman wrote:The link that you just dismissed **is** the cook-book that you need.

You misunderstood - I did not dismiss that link. I have it on my screen right now.

I was trying to tell you that I may skip over things that do not pertain directly to the project.

I do want to learn JP1 techniques, but for now I am tired of wrestling my wife for the single remote we share.

Meanwhile, some quotes from the thread at RC:

> I tried that but after about half way thru it ran out of memory.

So when you do that first download from the remote you should have memory full with half of the relevent signals. That may be enough to identify the code set and find the rest online. So if you give me that .ir file you may save the trouble of learning a second batch of signals.

> UEIC downloaded every code they had for Polaroid DVD Recorders, which was about 10, but none of them worked.

That's another reason to preserve the first download file. Maybe we'll see one of those was correct after all. Things can go wrong in testing. I'm also currious to see which 10 code sets they thought it might be.

> The hex code I got from the factory is 0x009F

It will be interesting to find out what the factory (I assume you mean Poloroid customer support) meant by 0x009F

Once you have that first .ir file, the best way to share it is:
1) Got to our diagnosis area
2) Upload your .ir file there
3) Go back to the diagnosis area and click on new link it has just created for the file you uploaded.
4) Copy (to the Windows clipboard) the URL of the page that goes to (a page with the description of your file and a Download Button etc.)
5) Paste that URL into a reply in this thread.

johnsfine wrote:For orienting the cable: With the 8910 face down (button side down) and the end nearer the 6-pin connector closer to you, pin 1 of the connector is on the left side. Some cables have a stripe, usually red, on the pin one side.

As luck would have it, the proper orientation of the cable is to the top of the remote. The first try I got it backwards and it did not pass the test in "IR.exe". Then I matched up the red stripe on the ribbon cable to the left side of the JP1 header inside the battery compartment and it passed the test.

NB: I assume I can connect and disconnect the JP1 cable whenever I choose (when IR.exe is quiet) and not glitch anything.

When testing the cable and once you have it working, you want to start with the operation "Download From Remote" on the "Remote" menu of IR.EXE. Once that works, you will have an image of the remote's EEPROM in IR.exe. Then use "Save As" in the file menu to put that into a .ir file that you should keep as the original contents of your EEPROM as they were before you started using JP1. As you understand things and/or ask more questions you might want to retrieve things from that file.

I saved the original remote image to "8910-original.ir" in the main JP1 directory.

I didn't read the other thread carefully enough to see whether you already learned the signals you want to decode. If not, you probably should make room by using IR's Learned Signals tab to delete any unrelated learned signals you have (they will still be in the file you saved above).

Done.

Then upload the image back to the 8910

Done

do the learning on the 8910, download back to IR.exe, save the result in a different .ir file

I learned only the Power key to get started (I have to disconnect the JP1 cable and go into the other room to test the Learned keys). I tested it on the DVDR unit and it works.

look on the Learned Signals tab for decodes, report the results back here for more help.

Here's the results for the the Learned Signal for the Power button:

Protocol: NEC1
Device: 0
Sub-Device: 159
OBC: 30
Hex Cmd: 87
EFC: 246

How do I extract the Learned Signals to ASCII so I don't have to type them by hand?

I notice that there are several entries in the list to the left. One of them is called "DVD: Power". What are those entries?

Each time I Learn a new key, I have to choose a key on the 8910 to store it. Can I reuse the 8910 keys for convenience or will that create a conflict? For example, I just Learned the Power key, and naturally I stored it in the 8910 Power key. If I went back and Learned the Open key and stored it in the Power key, would that cause a problem.

While I wait for your reply, I will get the keys that are marked the same. eg, the number keys, Open, Select, etc. But I will await your reply before I get any other keys that are not identically the same.

johnsfine wrote:Meanwhile, some quotes from the thread at RC:

> I tried that but after about half way thru it ran out of memory.

So when you do that first download from the remote you should have memory full with half of the relevent signals. That may be enough to identify the code set and find the rest online. So if you give me that .ir file you may save the trouble of learning a second batch of signals.

As I said in the reply to your earlier post, I await your answer to my question about the assignment of Learned codes.

> UEIC downloaded every code they had for Polaroid DVD Recorders, which was about 10, but none of them worked.

That's another reason to preserve the first download file. Maybe we'll see one of those was correct after all. Things can go wrong in testing. I'm also currious to see which 10 code sets they thought it might be.

This is directly from the email from UEI:

+++
DVD 1020, 1061, 1086, 1200, 1245, 1316, 1478, 1480, 1482
These are all the codes for Polaroid DVD.
+++

> The hex code I got from the factory is 0x009F

It will be interesting to find out what the factory (I assume you mean Poloroid customer support) meant by 0x009F

We will never know - UEI said they can't use hex codes and must have a remote to extract the codes, which the Product Line Manager at Polaroid sent them. However it can take up to 90-180 days to publish the new code set - that's why I got the JP1 cable. I can't wait that long.

Citizen Bob wrote:Here's the results for the the Learned Signal for the Power button:

That matches the power signal of that Coby DVD I mentioed before, so 0x009F did mean what I guessed it meant.

That Coby upgrade is at https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=1588 formated for use with RemoteMaster (not KM).
I haven't checked whether the Coby upgrade at https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=1913 (which is formatted for use with either KM or RM) has the same contents.

One of those upgrades would be a good starting point rather than learning more signals at this time. If some functions are missing or don't work you can learn just those.

Citizen Bob wrote:How do I extract the Learned Signals to ASCII so I don't have to type them by hand?

For now you've quoted enough signals. For later, if necessary, I think you find protocol, device and subdevice are the same for every signal. OBC, EFC and HEX are redundant forms of the same number, so you need only OBC.

Citizen Bob wrote: I notice that there are several entries in the list to the left. One of them is called "DVD: Power". What are those entries?

Those are the buttons on which you have learned signals. Click on each one of those to see the decode of that one signal in the main panel.

Citizen Bob wrote: Each time I Learn a new key, I have to choose a key on the 8910 to store it. Can I reuse the 8910 keys for convenience or will that create a conflict? For example, I just Learned the Power key, and naturally I stored it in the 8910 Power key. If I went back and Learned the Open key and stored it in the Power key, would that cause a problem.

No problem. Once you know the OBC number, you no longer need the learned signal.

Citizen Bob wrote:

It will be interesting to find out what the factory (I assume you mean Poloroid customer support) meant by 0x009F

We will never know - UEI said they can't use hex codes and must have a remote to extract the codes,

The point was that we here know a bit more about IR signals than UEIC knows, especially more than a single member of their support team knows.

I had a guess before about what 0x009F meant. I wasn't at all sure. I expected that seeing one decode would tell me what 0x009F meant. It did. It told me my guess (about that Coby DVD) was correct.

Citizen Bob wrote: I saved the original remote image to "8910-original.ir" in the main JP1 directory.

I couldn't figure out where you mean. I am still curious about that file. If you can't figure out the upload button in the diagnosis area, you could email it to me. See email address in profile.

Bob,

We are trying to point you to, and walk you through, those parts of the process that ARE relevant.

Regarding your specific last post:

Here's the results for the the Learned Signal for the Power button:

Protocol: NEC1
Device: 0
Sub-Device: 159
OBC: 30
Hex Cmd: 87
EFC: 246

How do I extract the Learned Signals to ASCII so I don't have to type them by hand?

I notice that there are several entries in the list to the left. One of them is called "DVD: Power". What are those entries?

Each time I Learn a new key, I have to choose a key on the 8910 to store it. Can I reuse the 8910 keys for convenience or will that create a conflict? For example, I just Learned the Power key, and naturally I stored it in the 8910 Power key. If I went back and Learned the Open key and stored it in the Power key, would that cause a problem.

The "DVD:Power" entry simply tells you what key on the 8910 you learned the command to. In this case, you learned that command to the "Power" button in the "DVD" device mode.

If you learn a second command to the same button in the same mode, it will not hurt anything, but will simply overwrite the previous learn. You can learn to the same button in DIFFERENT device modes, but that's probably not useful to you right now. You should just learn as many functions as you can, noting what function is learned to what button, until the memory is full. Download that into IR and save it, then learn some more until you have learned them all.

The decoded information is the information you need to recreate the signal in KM. As clearly described in the documents to which you have been pointed, on KM's setup worksheet, you select the 8910 remote, select ANY device type and setup code you want (let's choose DVD/1025, shall we?), select the NEC1 protocol, and enter 0 for the device and 159 for the sub-device.

Then go to the next worksheet ("Functions") and in column A, at the top, select OBC (this is just a convenience, so that we do not confuse each other with OBCs vs. EFCs). Then for each corresponding function in column A, enter the decoded (as diplayed in IR) OBC in column B. (For Power, you would enter an OBC of 030). Repeat this for all other learned functions. KM will then populate the other columns. If a function you learned does not appear in the list of column A, just add it to the list at the bottom. You can also delete or overwrite any of the function names in column A that you do not need.

In response to your question, there is no simple "extraction of signals to ASCI" - you have to manually enter the data in KM.

It may take a few iterations of learning and downloading your remote to IR to get all of the functions identified and decoded.

Now you should have a reltively fully populated Functions sheet in KM.

Go to the NEXT worksheet ("Buttons") and assign the Functions you just entered (available via a drop-down in each cell of column C) to whatever 8910 button you desire (in columns A-B).

Then go back to the setup worksheet and copy the "upgrade code" from KM and paste it into IR on the devices worksheet (click on the "ADD" button on the bottom to open an "ADD" panel).

Then assign your newly-added device type and setup code to whatever device button you want in IR's General Worksheet, upload it to your remote and test it to see if you did it properly.

If you need help at any stage, you should try to explain in detail what you have done, and at what step you have what problem, and post any relevant KM files you've built or IR files (either of learned signals, or with your upgrade) with a link here and someone will have a look.

Capn Trips wrote: In response to your question, there is no simple "extraction of signals to ASCI" - you have to manually enter the data in KM.

It may take a few iterations of learning and downloading your remote to IR to get all of the functions identified and decoded.

I had specifically asked him to post some decode info and ask for help with it, rather than go through the full generic process.

I did that because I suspected his upgrade was already built and I would recognise it, as I did. See my post above your post.

Even if he did need to go through the generic process, we should make sure he knows that after the first decode he only needs OBC from each of the others. Protocol, device and subdevice are the same in each function. HEX and EFC are redundant. (But we wouldn't have been sure protocol, device and subdevice would be that stable before we saw the first decode).

johnsfine wrote: 1) Got to our diagnosis area
2) Upload your .ir file there

I uploaded it as "8910-learned1.ir"

3) Go back to the diagnosis area and click on new link it has just created for the file you uploaded.
4) Copy (to the Windows clipboard) the URL of the page that goes to (a page with the description of your file and a Download Button etc.)
5) Paste that URL into a reply in this thread.

https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3770

Citizen Bob wrote:You misunderstood - I did not dismiss that link. I have it on my screen right now.

I was trying to tell you that I may skip over things that do not pertain directly to the project.

I do want to learn JP1 techniques, but for now I am tired of wrestling my wife for the single remote we share.

There's very little in that document that isn't directly releated to the project that you are trying to do. That document isn't an all purpose guide to all aspects of JP1, it's pretty much just a guide to creating and loading upgrades.

ALOT of the questions that you have been asking would have already been answered if you had read it. So my advice is for you to put aside 10 minutes and read it as it will save you many more minutes asking (otherwise un-necessary) questions here.