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Button maps, RM and the URC-8060
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:01 pm    Post subject: Button maps, RM and the URC-8060 Reply with quote

Greg,

I don't think the [ButtonMaps] are being translated correctly in RM on the layout (image) panel but do appear to be translating correctly on the buttons panel. I came across this trying to fix the RDF for the Kameleon 8060 for Ron.
    For example:
    1) In button map 0 (TV) the following buttons should show up and do as they are in the buttonmap ($29 UP, $2a DOWN, $2c RIGHT, $2b LEFT)
    2) In button map 4 (AUD) however, the following buttons should show ($69 REAR+, $6a REAR-, $6b CENTER+, $6c CENTER-) as they are in the button map but the up, down, left and right show which are not in buttonmap 4.

On the buttons panel they do switch from base to keymoved appropriately.

I will also as this at Sourceforge but thought some dialog might be necessary.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nils,

I must have the wrong RDF, image, and/or map, 'cause I can't find any mention of REAR+, REAR-, CENTER+, or CENTER- in the .map file.

I'm using v1.10 of the RDFs (for RM and IR 3.50 or later) and v1.10 of the Images & Maps.
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg, I uploaded the map and image for th 8060 to the jp1 diagnosis folder called Greg 8060.zip
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I've taken a look at this, and I need to know more about how the URC-8060 works.

I noticed that the REAR+, REAR-, CENTER+, CENTER-, and SURROUND (lets call these surround) keys have identical shapes to the UP, DOWN, RIGHT, LEFT and OK (lets call these navigation) keys. Also the buttons codes are $40 more, almost like some sort of shift.

RM can't currently handle overlapping buttons like these. For shifted (and XShifted) keys, the .map file should only have shapes for the base key, and RM automatically makes the connection between them.

Are the navigation keys available in the Audio modes, even though they aren't in the ButtonMap, or are only the surround keys available?
Are the surround keys activated using some sort of shift, or is there some sort of automatic shift associated with the Audio device that causes the button codes to change?
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I editied the title of this thread to include the URC-8060, so that it might attract URC-8060 owners to the discussion.
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfb107 wrote:

Are the navigation keys available in the Audio modes, even though they aren't in the ButtonMap, or are only the surround keys available?
Are the surround keys activated using some sort of shift, or is there some sort of automatic shift associated with the Audio device that causes the button codes to change?

No, according to Ron (who I was trying to fix this for) the navigation keys are not available in the audio mode but the surround keys are. Kind of like the button map shows. Remember this is a Kameleon and each device has it's own screen and I guess that it is a pseudo shift for these buttons.

The reason I thought maybe it was just that the Layout panel handled it different tan the button panel is because they worked correctly in the button panel. Meaning they flipped back and forth between base and keymove depending on the deice selection
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silron1



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just got on to this thread and will help as much as I can as I do use a 8060 & enjoying some success with RM

However bear in mind I am a newbie and you will need to spell out exactly what you need to know.

Ron
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This will take some more discussion.

It works on the Button panel because that panel is driven by the button definitions (I could argue that the Button panel doesn't work, because the navigation keys shouldn't be available at all in Audio mode, and I think the surround keys shouldn't be available in the other modes).

What's happening in the LayoutPanel is that it draws the orange border around the surround keys to show they are in the button map (remeber, they have the same shape as the navigation keys, so you can't tell visually which set is being drawn with the orange border). However, when you click on the key, or set the mouse over it, it shows the information about the navigation keys. The Layout panel simply iterates through the list of shapes looking for a shape that contains the mouse position, and when it finds a match, it stops.

As a test, you could try making one set a little bit bigger, and the other set a little bit smaller, and you'll be able to see that they are both present. Another test is to simply reorder the shapes in the .map file and you'll see that whichever is listed first is shown in all device modes.
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see what you are saying but I guess my hat was hanging on the way I understood the button maps to work. Simply put if a device is selected of say TV that has a button map value of "0" then only the buttons in that map would be highlighted with the orange circle as base. If a device was selected such as AUD that has a button map value of "4" then only the buttons in map 4 would show the orange circles as base.

The orange circles from my understanding means available as a base (not keymove) button. All others (not highlighted) could be assigned some function but they would become keymoves.

On the Buttons panel the buttons in the map for the device selected are showing as base and all others with an * indicating keymove. In other words if TV is selected for the 8060 up, down, etc. are base and rear, center etc. are keymoves. If AUD is selected they switch.

We could argue that the buttons panel is wrong but it maps better to the output.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct: the orange border means the key is in the button map for the currently selected device type. And that means that assigning a function to that key will mean that function is part of the "base" device upgrade and not a keymove.

Let's examine in particular the keys LEFT ($2C) and CENTER-($6C).
LEFT is present in all ButtonMaps except 4, while CENTER- is present only in ButtonMap 4.

So, when the device type uses any ButtonMap othen than , LEFT is drawn with an orange border, and no border is drawn around CENTER-. When the device type uses ButtonMap 4, CENTER- is drawn with an orange border, and no border is drawn around LEFT.

So far so good. The issue here is that LEFT and CENTER- use identical shapes, so you can't tell visually which one has the orange border. The border around LEFT looks exactly the same as the border around CENTER-.

The drawing of the outlines is working correctly.

The confusion is that when you use the mouse to click (or even just float over) the key, RM selects the button associated with the first shape it finds that contains the mouse pointer. It assumes that no 2 buttons can share the same space.

I can change the code to give preference to buttons in the current ButtonMap, but that is really only a quick-and-dirty fix.

I noticed, which looking at this, that the 8060 has an Audio($65) button, which I don't think is a device key based on where it is located on the remote. What does this button do? Is this a shift-type button that turns the navigation keys into surround keys?
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had a thought. Is it true that with the Kameleon remotes, the only keys that can be used for ANY purpose (keymoves, macros, etc) are keys that are in the ButtonMap?

If so, we could just create a flag for the [General] section of the RDF that states that only keys in the ButtonMap can be used for any purpose. Such a flag could be used to solve this problem.

Something like

UseButtonsInButtonMapOnly=1
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfb107 wrote:
I can change the code to give preference to buttons in the current ButtonMap, but that is really only a quick-and-dirty fix.

I am not fond of quick and dirty fixes but I believe this may be the right approach. In this case the buttons are in the same place and I could fudge it by moving the image and change it's shape which would work but would appear different than the remote looks to the user.
gfb107 wrote:
I noticed, which looking at this, that the 8060 has an Audio($65) button, which I don't think is a device key based on where it is located on the remote. What does this button do? Is this a shift-type button that turns the navigation keys into surround keys?
This is not a device button but one that is used for audio selection (or any function you want to assign it like any none device button). It is device selection that changes from navigation to surround etc. There was actually a problem in an earlier rdf and map combo that was using the audio button for the AUD device which I fixed.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this thread (as Greg requested elsewhere). But I don't think I can be very helpful. I don't have time to research the issues and I don't know any of the answers without research. I don't even know whether you were asking for my knowledge (don't have it) or my design skills (useless until the functional requirements are clearer).

I *think* the Kameleons do completely restrict keys that aren't in the current button map (no learned signals, no KeyMoves, even if programmed by JP1). But I'm not at all sure. If true, it does seem that the RDF needs some way to flag that fact.

With apology, I don't even remember who has written a Kameleon extender. I think you need some Kameleon knowledge from that person, both because he probably knows more about base Kameleon behavior than an ordinary Kameleon user would, and because the extender might change the rules to match neither the base Kameleon nor a more typical extender, in which case the RDF needs a way to cover that as well.
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gjarboni
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
With apology, I don't even remember who has written a Kameleon extender. I think you need some Kameleon knowledge from that person, both because he probably knows more about base Kameleon behavior than an ordinary Kameleon user would, and because the extender might change the rules to match neither the base Kameleon nor a more typical extender, in which case the RDF needs a way to cover that as well.


(from memory). Hal Takahara wrote the Kameleon extender. It was the first extender he wrote, if memory serves. I tried to search the Yahoo archive, but I got a "GroupServerClientError" when I tried to search back that far. The scary thing (to me) is that GroupServerClientError actually makes some sense! Smile

I'm pushing it, but I believe Hal documented the capabilities of the Kameleon (both extended and not) in the Yahoo group, so whoever needs that info might be able to get it via searching (whenever that starts working again).
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hal wrote the extender for the 15-2133, there's an extensive readme in the zip file which might help...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Extenders/15-2133/15-2133ex1_1.zip

Here's the thread that you're probably talking about...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/message/21232
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