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Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused by all this discussion of the HT Power Button as if it were a unique button.

The remote has a Power button and it has an HT button. Without an extender the HT button puts you in a strange mode which is sort of a combination of a few device modes.

I don't remember how the Power button acts when in HT mode. I used that remote very little without an extender, so I don't remember how it behaves. In some models HT mode makes the Power button totally useless. I don't think the 8811 is one of those models. I think the power button in HT mode is an ordinary button that inherits its behavior from some device mode.

I think HT mode is pretty badly flawed in all the models that have it. If you want a feature like HT mode you should use the extender. That will quickly add up to less total effort than trying to bend the remote's built in HT mode toward some reasonable behavior.
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tau166



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

usblipitor wrote:
uwereinert wrote:
The RDF for your remote is missing the key code for the HT Power Button.
Uwe,
Hmm.. the .rdf says the HT keys is $38, and the Power key is $03. No remote that I am aware of has a button called "HT Power." What key are you talking about that is missing from the .rdf? The reason I ask is that I have several 8811s and if a key is missing from the .rdf I might be able to help.


There isn't a "HT Power" button. I'm trying to use the "Power" button when I'm in "HT" mode. I think the problem is that "HT" isn't a real device mode (or something like that) so I can't assign anything to the power button in "HT" mode. I guees I don't totally understand what is happening when I press "HT". Correct me if I'm wrong, but pressing "HT" just tells the remote which buttons are mapped to which device and that's it right? So, is the power button mapped to a particular device in "HT" mode or not? I'm sorry if I'm not explaining this correctly. I'm still learning the lingo.
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usblipitor



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 516
Location: Greenbelt, MD

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember correctly, you cannot directly put a macro on a device key like HT. I just tried it anyway, and you can't do it directly. Using IR you can do it using the macro tab.
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tau166



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

usblipitor wrote:
Tau,
Have you tried creating a macro using the macro tab of IR and then uploading it to your remote? It works for me. What did you do and what happened?


yes, I've made macro's using IR and uploaded them and they work. For example I made a macro that turns on the TV, Tuner, and Cable box and assigned it to shift-power.

I was just hoping I could assign this macro (or any macro) the the "Power" button when I'm in "HT" mode. That specifically is what I can't do.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

tau166 wrote:

I was just hoping I could assign this macro (or any macro) the the "Power" button when I'm in "HT" mode. That specifically is what I can't do.


Macros are global. If you put a macro on the power button, that macro should work in all modes (in some remotes it is all modes except HT mode. I don't think the 8811 is one of those models).

With JP1, we have DSMs (device specific macros) which are actually KeyMoves but act like macros so they can be local to a specific device mode.

DSMs are possible with or without an extender, but are much simpler with an extender.

With or without an extender you HT mode is NOT a device mode for the purposes of defining KeyMoves (including DSMs). You would need to define that KeyMove in one of the eight device modes. With the extender you have clear control of which device mode would be selected for the set of keys including power, by the HT macro. Without an extender you might need some testing to find out how it behaves.
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usblipitor



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

tau166 wrote:
I was just hoping I could assign this macro (or any macro) the the "Power" button when I'm in "HT" mode. That specifically is what I can't do.
Did IR let you make the macro but when you went to test it things did not work?

On a different note, when you assign a macro to a key, that key becomes available in all modes and does the same thing no matter what; this is because macros are global. I noticed that in HT mode, my power button did not make the LED light up. I used IR to put a macro on my power button to press 1-2-3-4-5. On testing, now in HT mode the power button makes the LED light up as it sends 1-2-3-4-5.

If you want "HT Power" to do one thing, and "DVD Power" to do something else, you need to use the DSM protocol, or use an extender that has DSMs built in. (DSM=device specific macro)
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tau166



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

usblipitor wrote:
If you want "HT Power" to do one thing, and "DVD Power" to do something else, you need to use the DSM protocol, or use an extender that has DSMs built in. (DSM=device specific macro)


Thanks. Is there a help file on DSMs? Where can I find more information about this? Thanks.
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gjarboni
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Joined: 20 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
tau166 wrote:

I was just hoping I could assign this macro (or any macro) the the "Power" button when I'm in "HT" mode. That specifically is what I can't do.


Macros are global. If you put a macro on the power button, that macro should work in all modes (in some remotes it is all modes except HT mode. I don't think the 8811 is one of those models).


I can't answer this question, but maybe I can clear up some of the confusion. On the 740 remotes HT mode restricts macros to the Macro1, Macro2, and power buttons (on some remotes Macro1=Audio & Macro2=Video). Also, to define a macro on the power button for HT mode, you use a different key code. As an example -- on the Topline5 it's $42. On other remotes it's different, but above the normal keycodes. It took us a long time to figure this out (i.e. it happened maybe a year ago).

Okay, so I'm guessing one of three things has happened.

1) This behavior exists in the 8811
2) This behavior doesn't exist, but is still referenced in the manual
3) Someone read the posts about HT Power on the 740 remotes and got confused by them.
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usblipitor



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

tau166 wrote:
Thanks. Is there a help file on DSMs? Where can I find more information about this? Thanks.
I know of two ways to do this. Probably the best way is to use the 8811 extender. Click the link, download the file, and read the readme.txt that John S Fine did such a nice job putting together. The other way would be to use the DSM special protocol. The reason I favor the extender's DSM rather than the stand-alone DSM is that later on, if you want to add some of the extenders amazing features, you can. The stand-alone DSM protocol is not compatible with the extender. Download them both, the readme files that discuss special protocols are worth a read even if you decide to go with the extender.
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tau166



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

usblipitor wrote:
tau166 wrote:
Thanks. Is there a help file on DSMs? Where can I find more information about this? Thanks.
I know of two ways to do this. Probably the best way is to use the 8811 extender. Click the link, download the file, and read the readme.txt that John S Fine did such a nice job putting together. The other way would be to use the DSM special protocol. The reason I favor the extender's DSM rather than the stand-alone DSM is that later on, if you want to add some of the extenders amazing features, you can. The stand-alone DSM protocol is not compatible with the extender. Download them both, the readme files that discuss special protocols are worth a read even if you decide to go with the extender.


Allrighty then. Thanks so much for all the responses. I'll be home playing with DSM and/or extenders tonight. I'm sure I'll have more questions. I really appreciate all the help! Thanks again.
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e34m5



Joined: 14 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one puts a macro on the "HT" key does this invalidate the standard functionality for the "HT" button.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without an extender macros don't nest, so to access the original meaning of HT when a macro is defined for the HT key, you can use HT in a macro (the same one and/or another).

I'm not certain, but I think you can also trigger the standard function of HT using shifted HT when there is a macro on HT and neither KeyMove nor macro on shifted HT.

With an extender there is no standard functionality for HT. It's just a key available for KeyMoves or Macros (or as an alternate "shift" key, which is the way I use it on the 15-2104).
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tau166



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Home Theater Power Macro on URC8811 Reply with quote

So, thanks again to everyone for the responses. It seems that even with an extender I can't do what I wanted to do exactly. Because "HT" is still not a device it doesn't have a seperate power button so I can't put a macro on the "power" key in home theater mode. Perhaps with DSMs I might be able to do this. We'll see. Thanks again.
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Capn Trips
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I'm not an expert, but consider myself a somewhat "advanced beginner" (now THERE's and oxymoron for ya'), but it seems to me that you can do PRECISELY what you want with an extender.

With most extenders that I have used, device selection is irrespective of the button used, since device selection can ONLY be done by a macro. I also believe your remote can have more "virtual" devices than actual device buttons (similar to my RS 15-2117). In your case, apparently "Aux" and "CD" are such "virtual" devices. Also, the extender creates key sets, ("volume", "transport", "Menu", etc.) that can be separately assigned (in fact MUST be individually assigned) to different devices in each device selection macro you set up. (The macro may do MORE than just device selection, but SOME macro will have to set these devices)

Now let's say you want, in HT mode, to have the "other" keyset (which includes the "Power" button) assigned to your tuner (for fav/scan, phantoms, what-have-you), and your tuner is already set up as the "Receiver" device. Assign one of these extra - virtual - devices the same device code settings as your "Receiver" device. Let's say you use "Aux". (This can also be done using a "real" device that is otherwise unused, i.e. you are not using for an actual "Cbl" or "Sat" or "VCR" piece of equipment.)

So first you would have to create a global macro on the HT button which will assign all of the device selections you desire to the "transport", "volume", etc, keysets, and have the "other" keyset (that contains the Power) assigned to "Aux" (rather than "receiver").

That gives you the desired functions for the rest of the "other" keyset. (You may have to duplicate some keymoves to achieve FULL desired matching functionality). Then it's simply a matter of creating a Device-specific macro for the "power" button in "Aux" device mode to turn on all of the components you desire. And voila!

If all of your device settings are already occupied, then I don't know what to tell you.
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tau166



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capn Trips wrote:
Then it's simply a matter of creating a Device-specific macro for the "power" button in "Aux" device mode to turn on all of the components you desire. And voila!


Right. Like I said, I think I need DSMs to do this. I think I figured out most of the basic extender stuff like macros and x_commands, but I haven't figured out DSMs yet. That's next on the list.
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