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ProntoNEO .ncf to EFC conversion
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lexar442



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:23 am    Post subject: ProntoNEO .ncf to EFC conversion Reply with quote

My non-learning URC 8090B00/01 needs to control an Onkyo NC-500 NetTune receiver, so a friend witn a ProntoNEO learned its codes, and gave me a floppy with NEOHacker1.0.7, and a .ncf file. I can run NEOHacker, and look at the IR command sequences for each of the keys. But, how do I get it into IR.exe so I can use my JP1 connector?
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone here has any experience with NEOHacker or how it displays IR signals. Maybe, if you post some samples someone can talke a look at it.

A much better solution would be if you could find a Pronto ccf file for this device.

Rob
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lexar442



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:18 am    Post subject: Sample NCF signals Reply with quote

Here are some NEOHacker0.7 codes for the Delphi SkiFi XM Tuner (taken from a download on remote-central:
"Item 1": 0 f 6e 2 65 a8 20 40 3f 4f af c9 4 c8 cf d3 eb 30 1 f2 d
"Item 6": 0 f 6e 2 65 a8 20 40 3f 4f af c9 84 f4 f3 f4 3a 4c 48 df
"Item +": 0 f 6e 2 65 a8 20 40 3f 4f af c9 1c f0 f3 f4 3a cc 1 df

A couple from the Onkyo NC-500 NetTune Receiver as learned and saved from my remote:
"Item 1":0 f 6c 5 60 ab 15 16 41 57 ae 3f 6f fc 42 34 21 11 12 22 21 11 11 11 12 12 12 22 21 21 21 11 fc 3a f1 b c1 f0 bb ca 2b bf 10 c df
"Item 6": 0 f 6c 5 60 ab 15 16 41 57 ae 3f 6f fc 42 34 21 11 12 22 21 11 11 11 21 21 12 22 12 12 21 11 fc 3a f1 b c1 f0 bb ca 2b bf 10 c df
"Item CAPS": 0 f 6c 5 60 ab 15 16 41 57 ae 3f 6f fc 42 34 21 11 12 22 21 11 11 11 11 11 12 22 22 22 21 11 fc 3a f1 b c1 f0 bb ca 2b bf 10 c df

I believe the first set are HEX codes, and the second are Learned IR.

Thank you, and I keep looking for a conversion tool!
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dmets



Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went from a prontoNEO to a RS15-2116.

You need to get the marantz software. It will allow you to view the learned IR code in CCF hex form. (I understand neoHacker will allow you to do this too). Take that IR code us the ccf to efc spreadsheet to convert. It worked for my Onkyo codes. Check out the Remote Central ProntoNeo boards for more info.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly understand how to read NEO hex, but I don't have an programs in good condition for decoding it. If neoHacker will translate to Pronto Hex, that's much better. You can use the JP1 enhanced version of IrTool to translate.

Those Onkyo samples seem to be NEC1 protocol (which is typical for Onkyo). The content of the signal is in the section that says:

21 11 12 22 21 11 11 11 12 12 12 22 21 21 21 11

Each digit represents one bit , where a '2' is a 1 bit and a '1' is a 0, bit. But the bit sequence is strange. You must reverse each group of 4 pairs, so the first group (main device number):
21 11 12 22 -> 22121121 = 11010010 binary = 210 decimal

The next group is subdevice

21 11 11 11 -> 11111121 = 00000010 binary = 2 decimal.

We have lots of data on Onkyo code sets using NEC1 device 210, but none I've seen before uses subdevice 2.

The command is the third group

12 12 12 22 -> 22121212 = 11010101 binary = 213 decimal

You can try creating an upgrade NEC1 protocol, device 210, subdevice 2, and create a key with OBC (not EFC) equal to 213 and test to see if it does the "Item 1" function.
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dmets



Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - I forgot about IRTool. Great stuff - it will pop a box with the translated code.
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Dustin
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lexar442



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 5:19 am    Post subject: IRTools? Reply with quote

I tried pasting the strings from NEOHacker0.7 into IRTools 1.2, but I get an "incomplete code... too few data pairs" message.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pronto Hex is a different format than the NEO hex you posted. No one said that IrTool can read NEO hex. Dmets seems to be saying that the neohacker program can display the code in Pronto Hex as an alternative to neo hex (I've never seen the neohacker program, so I have no clue).
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dmets



Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2003 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep - you have to convert from neo hex to pronto hex. Then you can IRtool it.

I assume you have a .NCF file. Here is the process:

1) Get NeoHacker http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=neo&db=other&br=programs&dv=utilities&fc=

2) Using NeoHacker, open your file and save it as a "RC 3200 ncf"

3) Get the Marantz software RC3200 software. http://www.marantz.com/download/download_106.zip

4) Install the Marantz software and Open the newly saved RC3200 ncf.

5) You will be able to see the learned codes as Pronto Hex using the Marantz software.

6) Get the JP1 modified IRtool http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Programs/

7) Copy the Hex from the marantz software into the modified IRtool and you should get a popup box that gives you the EFC and other info... for JP1.

It worked for me....
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Dustin
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lexar442



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:35 am    Post subject: Baby Steps Reply with quote

OK, I got the Marantz RC3200 Setup software installed, opened it, and the three pages my friend created were there. I double-clicked on the Power button glyph, and the first tabbed dialog sheet showed, in the Normal Actions, "Learned IR code". Double-clicking showed the following hex in the Add IR Code box that opened up:
0000 006D 0024 0002 0155 00AE 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0041 0015 0041 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0600 0155 0057 0015 0E55 0155 0057 0015 0E55
I copied and pasted this into the Hex Codes box of IRTools.exe I got before (.exe file date 3/7/2003), and after pressing Decode Hex it now shows the following filled in fields (no pop-up):
Device: Kenwood / Yamaha
Carrier: 006d (109 cycles = 38.029KHz)
0: 0015 0015
1: 0015 0041
One Time is checked with Device and Command = 0
Repeat is checked, Device/Command=0
Lead in: 0155 0057
Lead out: 0015 0e55

I tried this with a few different "keys", and while the hex I am pasting into IRTools differs slightly, no changes are shown in the fields above.

I must be dumber than mud.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2003 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is pretty confusing at first Sad

To use the new decoder, IrTool requires that you get the DecodeIR.DLL, which is in a .zip in a different folder (from IrTool) in the JP1 group. It's at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/2.%20Tools/

You can put that DLL either in the folder with IrTool.exe or in a system folder for DLLs shared by multiple programs.

Without that DLL, IrTool uses its old decoder, which is built into the .exe. That ought to decode this signal, but I just tested and it doesn't. The new decoder is much better, so no one is going to diagnose why the old one is failing in a case its supposed to handle.

The Pronto Hex you just posted is a standard Onkyo signal, device 210, subdevice 108. I think my decode of the NEO hex for subdevice 2 was correct. It looks like you'll need some sort of combo protocol once you have more of these decoded.
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lexar442



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combo Protocol.... gonna have to find out what that means. After getting the DLL to the proper folder, I have decoded these three signals:
Power: Protocol: NEC1; Device: 210, 108; OBC: 203; EFC: 51
Music: NEC1; 210,2; 136; 61
iNet: NEC1; 210,2; 137; 65

Looks like I have sub-devices 108 and 2. (I will run the rest of the buttons through, and see if there are more.) Can I use KM to get a single device code out of this? I found I can only use one or the other, not both.
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lexar442



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished decoding the rest of the signals, and looks like sub-device 109 is for Tuner type functions, 2 for the majority, and 108 is only for power?
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the audio folder
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/3.%20Device%20Codes/Audio/
you will find at least two examples of Onkyo devices set up using the NEC1 Combo protocol (combining 210.108 and 210.109)

One of those would be a good starting point since its 210.109 functions probably match your 210.109 functions. And it should help you understand how to use the NEC1 Combo protocol in KM.

Some of its functions that your Onkyo remote doesn't have probably work in your Onkyo device (It is common in such cases to design the device to understand more commands than the remote sends).

Add your subdevice_2 functions either on lines (of the functions tab) that the starting file doesn't use or on lines it uses for 108 or 109 functions that you know don't apply to your device. You can change function names in column A, put the EFC or OBC (depending on how you set KM) in column B, and put your subdevice number (2) in column C.

Assign functions to buttons on the buttons sheet, which will be much easier if you changed the function names to something meaningful on the functions sheet.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just tried switching this upgrade for the 8090 and saw you will face another problem. A combo protocol tends to make a large upgrade and the 8090 can't take a large upgrade.

You may be better off setting it up a different way.

You can select either 2 or 109 and create a non combo upgrade for just the functions that use that subdevice. Then create an upgrade for the other one(s) with no buttons assigned in the upgrade. Use those no-buttons upgrades as the source for KeyMoves to fill in the functions not covered by the main upgrade.

I haven't checked: The 8090 might already have a setup code for 210.108 and/or 210.109, in which case you could use that instead of a new no-buttons upgrade as the source for KeyMoves.
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