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ricara
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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 Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:45 am Post subject: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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Hello -
I'm using a Catalyst 48 that is essentially equivalent to the Outlaw remote. When I open up the Outlaw remote in KeyMap-Master 8.03, I don't understand some things on the "Buttons" tab.
This is apparently using an older RDF where some of the device keys weren't translated:
Device 3 = AUX
Device 4 = CD
Device 5 = TNR
Device 6 = AMP
Device 7 = SAT
I can handle the translation, but I don't understand where the other three device buttons are. On the remote itself are 3 additional buttons:
CBL
VCR
TV
but in KM 8.03 the only other device button listed is "TV/VCR".
The "readme" file for KM says, "If it's not on the list or is grayed-out, YOU CANNOT USE THAT BUTTON!" So I would assume for some reason that these device buttons cannot be used. But which button is the "TV/VCR" button? Is it the "TV" button, or the "VCR" button? Any help would be appreciated.
Since I was kind of stuck on this issue, I thought I'd try RemoteMaster 0.79. But I got kind of stuck again here, as the drop-down menu for "Device Type" does not list OEM as an option. I was able to make some headway by editing the RDF.
After playing around with the section "DeviceTypeAliases" I realized that the aliases are fixed in the RemoteMaster program, but that I can map them back to the "OEM" device type in the RDF. I chose to use "Misc Audio" as the alias for the "OEM" device type, which seems to work OK as long as can remember what I mapped. If the drop-down menu could be expanded to include an "OEM" device type, that would be great!
But my next question is why are there 5 different device types listed in the 1.10 version RDF for the Outlaw remote, when there are only 3 types listed in KM 8.03? Keymap-Master combines TV and VCR and CBL together, whereas the RDF separates them out into sub-types:
[DeviceTypes]
CBL/SAT = 0, $00
TV = 0, $01
VCR = 0, $02
AUDIO = 1, $03
OEM = 2, $04
where the initial value is the same but the hex value is different. Again, any insights would be appreciated.
One last question. In the KM "Layout" tab, it lists 4 additional buttons:
Key57
Key58
Key59
Key60
that have no corresponding physical buttons. What are these buttons for? Thanks! |
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| ricara wrote: | I'm using a Catalyst 48 that is essentially equivalent to the Outlaw remote. When I open up the Outlaw remote in KeyMap-Master 8.03, I don't understand some things on the "Buttons" tab.
This is apparently using an older RDF where some of the device keys weren't translated: |
KM doesn't use the RDF. The info is all internal and currently based on some very old details.
The Outlaw isn't very popular around here. It's like one of those relatives you don't hear from except at the holidays! Hmmm... it's almost Christmas! 
| Quote: | but in KM 8.03 the only other device button listed is "TV/VCR".
The "readme" file for KM says, "If it's not on the list or is grayed-out, YOU CANNOT USE THAT BUTTON!" So I would assume for some reason that these device buttons cannot be used. But which button is the "TV/VCR" button? Is it the "TV" button, or the "VCR" button? Any help would be appreciated. |
I'm pretty sure that's NOT a device button. TV/VCR should be a normal button. Maybe it's labeled TV/VID or A/V or something similar on the Catalyst?
Also, the Buttons sheet in KM is only for mapping to the default "key map" (the corresponding mode list on Layout). Most other buttons (preceded by "@") will be made into key moves. There are some that can't be used at all (grayed out) that either aren't in the remote or can't be used for whatever reason.
When I get some time, I'll have to sit down and go through the most recent RDF for the Outlaw and compare it to what KM has. If there's any significant changes, I'll make them for the next release.
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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I took a quick peek at the latest RDF and compared it to KM's settings for the Outlaw. I only found one problem, that being the TV/VCR entry (see below).
| ricara wrote: | | but in KM 8.03 the only other device button listed is "TV/VCR". |
That's a mistake. TV/VCR should NOT be in the list. It's actually the Input{Digital} button, which is current mapped as "input". I will correct this for the next release.
| Quote: | | Since I was kind of stuck on this issue, I thought I'd try RemoteMaster 0.79. But I got kind of stuck again here, as the drop-down menu for "Device Type" does not list OEM as an option. I was able to make some headway by editing the RDF. |
It does appear that RM doesn't support the OEM Device Type. I checked the Replay remotes and they have the same problem.
On a side note for the RM guys, it also looks like RM also doesn't support the PVR device type that was added to KM with the addition of the URC-6131.
| Quote: | [DeviceTypes]
CBL/SAT = 0, $00
TV = 0, $01
VCR = 0, $02
AUDIO = 1, $03
OEM = 2, $04
where the initial value is the same but the hex value is different. Again, any insights would be appreciated. |
That first value after the "=" indicates the ButtonMap entry to be used. The second entry ($00, $01, etc) is the type specifier, which is actually unnecessary since they match the postional arrangement of the entries in this case.
| Quote: | One last question. In the KM "Layout" tab, it lists 4 additional buttons:
Key57
Key58
Key59
Key60
that have no corresponding physical buttons. What are these buttons for? |
They're only mapped in OEM mode, and still have no entries in the RDF. I can only assume that they're phantoms of some sort.
Again, the Outlaw doesn't come up very often around here. I think Rob knows a little more about it than anyone else, so hopefully he'll jump in here and help.
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ricara
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: | | TV/VCR should NOT be in the list. It's actually the Input{Digital} button, which is current mapped as "input". I will correct this for the next release. |
Great! Thanks for the quick response. That clarifies things for me. If you have time, it would probably be nice to update the "device" buttons also:
Device 3 = AUX
Device 4 = CD
Device 5 = TNR
Device 6 = AMP
Device 7 = SAT
| Quote: | It does appear that RM doesn't support the OEM Device Type. I checked the Replay remotes and they have the same problem.
On a side note for the RM guys, it also looks like RM also doesn't support the PVR device type that was added to KM with the addition of the URC-6131. |
Hopefully the "RM guys" read this forum. In the meantime, I can use the workaround by editing the RDF and assigning one of the drop-down aliases to the OEM type.
| Quote: | | That first value after the "=" indicates the ButtonMap entry to be used. The second entry ($00, $01, etc) is the type specifier, which is actually unnecessary since they match the postional arrangement of the entries in this case. |
I understand the part about the ButtonMap entry, but I'm still lost regarding the "type specifier". Can you clarify this for me?
| Quote: | They're only mapped in OEM mode, and still have no entries in the RDF. I can only assume that they're phantoms of some sort.
Again, the Outlaw doesn't come up very often around here. I think Rob knows a little more about it than anyone else, so hopefully he'll jump in here and help. |
That sounds like a reasonable explanation. Rob, feel free to chime in if you're "listening".
Thanks again, not only for the speedy answers, but also for the whole darn JP-1 thing! |
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Mark Pierson
Expert
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| ricara wrote: | it would probably be nice to update the "device" buttons also:
Device 3 = AUX
Device 4 = CD
Device 5 = TNR
Device 6 = AMP
Device 7 = SAT |
I'd like to do this, but am hesitant since we're not sure of what 1 and 2 are.
| Quote: | | I understand the part about the ButtonMap entry, but I'm still lost regarding the "type specifier". Can you clarify this for me? |
The position of the device button in DeviceTypes indicates the device index, starting the enumeration with 0. If the 3rd entry in the list were:
VCR=2, $01
The device index = 2, the ButtonMap = 2, and I think the $01 means treat it like the device index 1 button. One of the other experts can tell me how far off I am, because I'm really not sure. 
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jamesgammel
Exile Island Resident
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 394
Location: Gillette, Wyoming
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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[DeviceTypes]
CBL/SAT = 0, $00
TV = 0, $01
VCR = 0, $02
AUDIO = 1, $03
OEM = 2, $04
Gee whizz, I thought the first number corresponded to the buttonmap the device uses, and the second (Like in Cbl/Sat=0,$00) that $00 was the keycode for the device button. I guess I've got it all screwed up.
Jim |
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesgammel wrote: | | I thought... the second (Like in Cbl/Sat=0,$00) that $00 was the keycode for the device button. |
C'mon, Jim... you know that keycodes are defined in the [Buttons] section (don't you?).
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Mark |
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ricara
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: |
I'd like to do this, but am hesitant since we're not sure of what 1 and 2 are. |
Hello Mark,
There are actually three more devices, 0, 1, and 2. These are Cable, VCR, and TV, although not necessarily in that order. These three buttons show up correctly in RM when using the 1.10 RDF (as does the "Input {Digital}" button), but are nowhere to be seen in KM. I suppose that the data in KM was taken from an old, incorrect RDF or something.
I was just starting to "get" KM, but maybe I should switch to RM instead? 
Thanks! |
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gfb107
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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Nils_Ekberg
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Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 1689
Location: Near Albany, NY
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| gfb107 wrote: |
Nils, if you are reading, time for some RDF updates! |
Got it, will see what I can do for the next release.
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Nils
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| ricara wrote: | | There are actually three more devices, 0, 1, and 2. These are Cable, VCR, and TV, although not necessarily in that order. These three buttons show up correctly in RM when using the 1.10 RDF (as does the "Input {Digital}" button), but are nowhere to be seen in KM. I suppose that the data in KM was taken from an old, incorrect RDF or something. |
I've looked at this a couple of times and am still confused.
If those "device#" entries are actually device buttons, then I don't think they should appear at all in KM. I really need to hear from someone who knows more about the Outlaw and can explain whether those are tradition device buttons or not. I could possibly add the 3 that are missing, but can't seem to answer why any of them should be in there at all.
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ricara
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| gfb107 wrote: | I just released RM v0.80, which should allow you to add "OEM Mode" as a valid device type alias, like you tried. It also support the PVR alias, which will default to VCR if it isn't specified in the RDF.
Nils, if you are reading, time for some RDF updates! |
Hello Greg,
Wow! That was fast! Thanks for doing that. I downloaded the latest version and it looks like it now reads the DeviceTypeAliases from the RDF to use in the drop-down "Device Type" menu.
This adds a lot more flexibility, but now I have a new question. It looks like RM now automatically adds "PVR" to the Device Type list if it finds "VCR" in the RDF. Wouldn't it be make more sense to just add "PVR" to the aliases in the RDFs?
I guess we would also have to see if Nils would be willing to do so... 
Thanks again! |
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ricara
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: | I've looked at this a couple of times and am still confused.
If those "device#" entries are actually device buttons, then I don't think they should appear at all in KM. I really need to hear from someone who knows more about the Outlaw and can explain whether those are tradition device buttons or not. I could possibly add the 3 that are missing, but can't seem to answer why any of them should be in there at all. |
Hello Mark,
Thanks for checking into this. RM seems to display everything properly for the Outlaw remote. To see what is happening, edit the 1.10 RDF for the Outlaw remote by adding the line:
OEM = OEM
at the end of the "DeviceTypeAliases" section.
Then using RM version 0.80 (important!), select the Outlaw remote and Device Type "OEM". Now if you go to the "Buttons" tab you will see all of the buttons displayed correctly. (The device and "setup" buttons will have asterisks after them.)
I still don't know what the extra four buttons are exactly. In RM they are labeled "unknown39" through "unknown3c", using hex numbering. In KM they are lableled "key57" through "key60", using decimal numbering. I assume they are some sort of phantom buttons.
Hope this helps! |
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ricara
Joined: 07 Dec 2003
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:07 am Post subject: Re: Questions on Outlaw Remote for RM and KM |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: | [DeviceTypes]
CBL/SAT = 0, $00
TV = 0, $01
VCR = 0, $02
AUDIO = 1, $03
OEM = 2, $04
That first value after the "=" indicates the ButtonMap entry to be used. The second entry ($00, $01, etc) is the type specifier, which is actually unnecessary since they match the postional arrangement of the entries in this case. |
Hello -
I think I've finally figured what you were telling me about the second entry. If I understand correctly, each Device Type can use the same Setup Code (e.g., 0571) yet still invoke a different set of code to be executed. (There's a reason I'm posting in the "Beginner's Forum"! )
But if my understanding is correct, why use Device Type Aliases? Couldn't that lead to someone trying to assign two Setup Codes to the same Device Type?
In other words, I think it's OK if there is a VCR with Setup Code 0571 and also a CD with Setup Code 0571. But you wouldn't want to also have an Amp with Setup Code 0571, as that would conflict with the CD since both "CD" and "Amp" are really both "Audio" Device Types.
Or maybe I'm still all mixed up.... |
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gfb107
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| ricara wrote: | | This adds a lot more flexibility, but now I have a new question. It looks like RM now automatically adds "PVR" to the Device Type list if it finds "VCR" in the RDF. Wouldn't it be make more sense to just add "PVR" to the aliases in the RDFs? |
It is just a matter of convenience. I looked at how KM added PVR and noticed that for MOST remotes, PVR used the same device type as VCR. The exceptions are the URC-9960 and the Atlas DVR. It seemed easier to me to add the default behavior of using the same device type as VCR for PVR, than updating all the RDFs (almost 100 now). This way only the exceptions need to be changed, rather than all.
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Original RemoteMaster developer
JP1 How-To's and Software Tools
The #1 Code Search FAQ and it's answer (PLEASE READ FIRST) |
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