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ncoig
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 145
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 Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: Philips Bookshelf System |
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To the Gurus:
I have a little Philips bookshelf system, which uses the RC-5 protocol and OBCs.
Simple enough, but the single remote uses a different Device code for each function (CD, Tuner, tape, etc.)
Unfortunately, there are places for three device codes, but the system uses 5 different device codes. Is there a way to "trick" KM into extra device codes?
Thanks,
-N |
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whompus
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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You would likely be better off breaking it up into 2 upgrades.
If you need or want it all in 1 upgrade, and have room for a big protocol upgrade, you can use device combiner to combine them all in one. |
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ncoig
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| whompus wrote: | You would likely be better off breaking it up into 2 upgrades.
If you need or want it all in 1 upgrade, and have room for a big protocol upgrade, you can use device combiner to combine them all in one. |
If I use two upgrades, I have to occupy 2 device buttons, or else have a whole load of keymoves. Seems like it should be pretty simple to just force the device code into KM somehow, since I assume that all KM is doing is a shortcut by taking the device code (0,1,2) and converting that to the appropriate code someplace. I should be able to type over a cell somewhere and just do it manually, I just don't know where.
-N |
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gfb107
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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whompus
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't the combo limited to 4 devices. Where the combiner is not.
What about doing a learn of each device? Then upload the ir file with the learns in it, so we can see what they are. |
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gfb107
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3411
Location: Cary, NC
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Mark Pierson
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3017
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ncoig wrote: | | Seems like it should be pretty simple to just force the device code into KM somehow, since I assume that all KM is doing is a shortcut by taking the device code (0,1,2) and converting that to the appropriate code someplace. I should be able to type over a cell somewhere and just do it manually, I just don't know where. |
There is no place to do that. KM is constrained by the protocol executor in the remote. If the executor only allows 1 or 2 or 3 devices, then there's nothing KM can do to overcome that.
In this instance, the RC-5/5X Combo is probably the appropriate choice if you don't want to create 2 or more individual device upgrades.
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whompus
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| gfb107 wrote: | | The combo is limited to 4 RC-5X devices, but you can have any number of RC-5 devices. The pain is that you have to specify the device for every function. |
Ahhh... See, I wasn't aware of that. It shows it has been a while that I have not worked with the rc combo.
I would still likely try the combiner for it, as its protocol is about half the size of the protocol for the combo. |
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ncoig
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Pierson wrote: | There is no place to do that. KM is constrained by the protocol executor in the remote. If the executor only allows 1 or 2 or 3 devices, then there's nothing KM can do to overcome that.
In this instance, the RC-5/5X Combo is probably the appropriate choice if you don't want to create 2 or more individual device upgrades. |
I see. I didn't realize that was a functional limitations. In some of the VERY early KMs, I seem to recall, rather than entering 0,1,2, I was entering the device ID on the function sheet.
With the RC5 combo, it's still one device shy to work - there are 5 IDs on this remote.
If I use the Device combiner, however, it forces the use of EFCs rather than the OBCs I am using with the RC5 protocol... I'm going to give it a shot, but I don't think it's going to work.
-N |
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Capn Trips
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ncoig wrote: | | Mark Pierson wrote: | There is no place to do that. KM is constrained by the protocol executor in the remote. If the executor only allows 1 or 2 or 3 devices, then there's nothing KM can do to overcome that.
In this instance, the RC-5/5X Combo is probably the appropriate choice if you don't want to create 2 or more individual device upgrades. |
I see. I didn't realize that was a functional limitations. In some of the VERY early KMs, I seem to recall, rather than entering 0,1,2, I was entering the device ID on the function sheet.
With the RC5 combo, it's still one device shy to work - there are 5 IDs on this remote.
If I use the Device combiner, however, it forces the use of EFCs rather than the OBCs I am using with the RC5 protocol... I'm going to give it a shot, but I don't think it's going to work.
-N |
You're only partially correct. Unless ALL of your devices are RC-5X, there is no 4-device limit. For RC-5 devices (which you have stated you have), there is no limit, since you enter the device number along with the function on the function page, NOT on the setup worksheet.
Secondly, there is no reason you cannot convert OBCs to EFCs to facilitate use of the Device combiner if that's what you choose.
You should create each, and see which results in a more efficient upgrade. You haven't mentioned what remote you're using, but the RC-5/5X Combo protocol is built-in to many of the more recent remotes (KM will tell you if you need the protocol upgrade), so you may not need that huge protocol upgrade referred to above, but if you do, then Device Combiner is likely to be a more efficient option.
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!
Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer) |
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whompus
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Capn Trips wrote: | | You should create each, and see which results in a more efficient upgrade. You haven't mentioned what remote you're using, but the RC-5/5X Combo protocol is built-in to many of the more recent remotes (KM will tell you if you need the protocol upgrade), so you may not need that huge protocol upgrade referred to above, but if you do, then Device Combiner is likely to be a more efficient option. |
Thats another good point. My mention of size is based on remembering talks that point to ncoig's use of the 1994. Which will need the protocol either way if I remember right. |
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ncoig
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: |
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| Capn Trips wrote: | | Secondly, there is no reason you cannot convert OBCs to EFCs to facilitate use of the Device combiner if that's what you choose. |
Say what you will about the interchangability of OBCs to EFCs, but when you move from a protocol like this RC5 which NEEDS OBC to work right (see "Protocol Notes" to see what I mean) when you "convert" them to EFCs, they get all botched up and don't work with Device Combiner, because it gets converted to the lowest EFC, which isn't the same as the former OBC...
e.g.: "Center Channel -" is OBC 103. When you "swap" OBCs for EFCs, it gets converted to EFC 017, which KM shows as OBC 039, which ain't the same thing. Drop that into your EFC Worksheet, and you get a device which can't understand the remote.
The RC5 Combo works, though. No dice with DC, though due to the EFC limitation.
-N |
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Capn Trips
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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I'm happy that the RC5 Combo works for you.
I'm sorry you got upset with my suggestion about converting OBC's to EFC's. I submit that it depends HOW you convert them to EFCs that will determine whether or not they work.
But that's a discussion for a later time.
P.S You're welcome.
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!
Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer) |
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Capn Trips
Expert
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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For that "later time" discussion to which I refer above, here is how I would attempt the DC protocol. Primary amongst the assumptions is I do NOT simply use KM's "Swap OBC>EFC" button.
(1) Use RC5 (which is in and of itself a mini-combo) to build the upgrade for three of the device numbers (let us randomly select device numbers 12 (OBCs<64), 12 (OBCs > 63) and 34 (<64);
(1a) This yields fixed data of 13 53 FF
(2) List all of your functions and their OBCs and select the appropriate device selection in the byte 2 column (0, 1 or 2), but don't waste time with button assignments;
(3) You will note that EACH OBC translates to a unique EFC and HEX on that functions page;
(4) Copy the columns A1 to Fx (to your last function defined) to a blank spreadsheet;
(5) Repeat steps (1) through (4) for your NEXT set of RC5 Devices (let us say Device numbers 56 <64, 56>63 and 78<64)
(5a) This yields fixed data of F9 27 F4
(6) Now start a blank KM upgrade using the DC protocol, enter the two "devices" you just created (0=prot 00 E8, Fixed Data 13 53 FF; 1=prot 00 E8, Fixed Data=F9 27 F4)
(7) On the functions page, copy the EFCs you "saved" from steps (4) above into the EFC column (ensure you name your functions correctly)
(8 ) select the corresponding byte 2 (presumably you don't care about duration, so just select 0 for those EFCs calculated using the FIRST set of Fixed Data and 1 for the second "upgrade";
(9) NOTE THE CALCULATED HEX VALUES. The second bytes should match exactly the HEX values for each function in the blank spreadsheet where you copied the upgrade data to, whilst the FIRST byte of each HEX command tells the remote which protocol/fixed data combination to use for that HEX command, so I would imagine that this DC upgrade, if properly built and imported, should work.
I may, of course, be wrong, but I'm inclined to believe that should work.
Of course, since the RC-5/5X combo works for you, you have no need of this method, unless, as I mentioned in an earlier post, it saves you memory that you could better use for other things.
Again, this is ONLY likely if your remote requires the RC-5/5X Combo protocol upgrade, so it's up to you to determine which is most efficient.
_________________
Beginners - Read this thread first
READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!
Remotes: OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: LG 65" Smart LED TV; Samsung QN850BF Series - 8K UHD Neo QLED LCD TV
RCVR: Onkyo TX-SR875; Integra DTR 40.3
DVD/VCR: Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A3 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc: Pioneer CLD-D704.
Amazon Firestick
tape deck: Pioneer CT 1380WR (double cassette deck)
(But I still have to get up for my beer) |
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whompus
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 540
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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If converted right obc 103 should convert to efc 009.
None the less, I am glad to hear you got it sorted. My grandson has a Philips Bookshelf unit in his playroom that we have only the tuner and cd working at this time. Looking at the file it use it is rc5 as well. I have no oem remote to learn from.
When you get the upgrade completed could you please upload it. Maybe it will give his unit more functions. If lucky it may even give it all functions. |
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