Pronto Questions

[IBNobody]

I'm trying to understand more about how the JP1 remotes work. I never paid much attention to discrete codes until I ran across this...

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/D ... format.pdf

According to this Panasonic document, I should be able to switch to an HDMI input directly.

Here is the pronto code...

0000 006C 0000 0032 0084 0043 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0033 0011 0033 0011 0011 0011 0011 0011 0B1E

1. How do I turn this pronto hex string into something I can use with my JP1 remote? Do I have to build a CCF file, decode it using Rob's tool, and whatnot?

2. I noticed from the IR document (http://www.hifi-remote.com/infrared/IR-PWM.shtml) that the 2nd WORD is the carrier frequency. I also saw in the Panasonic document that a few codes had different carrier frequencies. Is this true?

3. An OFA setup code for a device defines what protocol, device ID, and carrier frequency to use, correct? It also maps the keypress bytes to actual keys?

4. How can I get a pronto code from dumping the learned signal data on my remote using IR.EXE?

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I realize some of these questions are vague, so let me clarify what I'm trying to do.

I've got my JP1 remote set up to control my TV. I used the discrete code trick (SETUP-###) to find keycodes that weren't mapped to a button. Discrete ON, Discrete OFF, and a nasty Matsushita Self Check screen that reset my TV. I also found keycodes to switch to the Composite Video 1/2/3. I didn't find any keycodes for my HDMI 1/2 or Component 1/2 inputs.

Looking on the 'net, I found that Panasonic Document. I said, "Ah Hah! I can use these codes to switch to HDMI!". After some research on how IR signals worked, I saw that those pronto codes were running on different carrier frequencies. (6C, 6D, 70, 71) I thought maybe I could build a Frankenstein-ish "TV" setting on my remote (using key moves) that would combine the working setup code with the setup codes related to the alternate frequencies.

But I ran into a roadblock. I don't know how to use the information I have.

Also, the Panasonic doc doesn't list a remote code for the SDHC button. None of my discrete codes (SETUP-###) worked to trigger this function on my TV. I will have to learn the IR signature of this command with my 7800. I wanted to be able to compare this code with other codes in the Panasonic document. To do so, I need the pronto code for it.

[johnsfine]

Your signal is Panasonic protocol, device 128, subdevice 4, OBC 176 EFC 157.

I expect that the reason you can't use SETUP-### to get that signal is that your setup code is for Panasonic device 128 but subdevice 0, not 4.

There are various methods discussed in many other threads for mixing in a few subdevice 4 signals for a Panasonic device that is mostly subdevice 0. There are also several pre built upgrades available for similar Panasonic combos.

To interpret Pronto Hex, such as the one you quoted, or to compare Pronto Hex to anything (including other Pronto Hex) you should use the JP1 version of IrTool plus DecodeIR.dll.

[underquark]

Further to above (I type more slowly and have just realised that johnsfine has already responded):

Panasonic devices typically use device code 128 but can have one or more subdevices. When you learn from the original remote you can use IR to see these subdevices. Then you create an upgrade using not the plain Panasonic protocol but the Panasonic Combo protocol which allows you to set the subdevices. Using RM or KM you will now see that 2-byte codes have been generated for each button.

Some of the 2-byte codes have the same effect as plain 1-byte codes. Your Set-xxx codes are only 1-byte codes and will only address one such subdevice so there could be many more codes lurking there that you can't generate directly on the remote (but which you can capture from the original remote).

You can use MakeHex to generate pronto codes for comparison with your list.

[johnsfine]

Here is a more detailed answer that I didn't have time for earlier.

1. How do I turn this pronto hex string into something I can use with my JP1 remote?

Get IRTool and decodeIR.dll. Use those to decode Pronto Hex strings.

I also saw in the Panasonic document that a few codes had different carrier frequencies. Is this true?

I don't think the correct frequency varies. I don't know how Panasonic generated those samples of Pronto Hex. Maybe they programmed the signals into some other universal remote, then used learning to get them into a Pronto and downloaded the results. Pronto's don't learn very accurately, especially frequency.

3. An OFA setup code for a device defines what protocol, device ID, and carrier frequency to use, correct? It also maps the keypress bytes to actual keys?

Right. A KeyMove based on a setup code uses the protocol and device info of that setup code but can use an EFC number to map a different function than any that the setup code maps.

4. How can I get a pronto code from dumping the learned signal data on my remote using IR.EXE?

You can do that using the MakeHex program with the protocol, device, subdevice and OBC info from the decode in IR.EXE.

BUT you don't really want to (see below).

I saw that those pronto codes were running on different carrier frequencies. (6C, 6D, 70, 71) I thought maybe I could build a Frankenstein-ish "TV" setting on my remote (using key moves) that would combine the working setup code with the setup codes related to the alternate frequencies.

The IR receiver in your TV doesn't care about minor differences in frequency. Even if the frequency variation shown by Panasonic were correct (very unlikely) there would be no reason for you to try to duplicate it.

None of my discrete codes (SETUP-###) worked to trigger this function on my TV.

As explained in my first post.

I wanted to be able to compare this code with other codes in the Panasonic document. To do so, I need the pronto code for it.

You would learn nothing by comparing two samples of Pronto Hex. The Pronto Hex for a single signal can vary in many different ways without a material effect to the actual signal the Pronto would send. When I need to compare two signal in Pronto Hex form, it is a tedious task requiring both significant busy work and significant knowledge. It is rarely necessary.

Instead of comparing Pronto Hex to anything, you should decode the Pronto Hex with IrTool and compare that decode.

[jimdunn]

(I type more slowly and have just realised that johnsfine has already responded):

I'm sorry, I have nothing to contribute to this thread except to share that sentiment. I suspect the man is a machine...

[IBNobody]

Ahhhhhhhhhh! I understand now. (Partially, at least!)

Panasonic uses its own protocol that specifies a device ID and a subdevice ID. Panasonic devices may respond to multiple subdevice ID codes. The OFA setup code links to a data entry on the remote that contains all the protocol structure and button mappings.

I was using setup code 0250 for my Panny on my 7800. 0250 is a 128.0 device. According to the Devices.XLS spreadsheet, the 7800 doesn't have an upgrade code for a 128.4 device. That makes sense.

1. I would need to use the Panasonic MIX Combo protocol and add in subdevices 128.0 and 128.4, correct?
2. If I used a mixed mode 0/4 protocol, I can't use a setup-### command to detect valid keypresses, correct?
3. If the setup-### trick doesn't work, what is a good way to manually identify hidden discrete codes?

EDIT: Removed question #4, as John has already answered it.

[IBNobody]

To add to my last post...

How does one go about using the 128.4 EFCs in a 128.0/4 combo protocol? IRTool just gives the single byte EFC/OBC code.

EDIT: Found the answer in KM!

[johnsfine]

According to the Devices.XLS spreadsheet, the 7800 doesn't have an upgrade code for a 128.4 device.

You mean it doesn't have a "built-in setup code" for 128.4. An "upgrade" code is one loaded into the eeprom by JP1. It will have whatever upgrade codes you choose to load.

1. I would need to use the Panasonic MIX Combo protocol and add in subdevices 128.0 and 128.4, correct?

Creating an upgrade using some Panasonic combo protocol is one solution. Another solution is to create a "helper upgrade" for just 128.4 and use keymoves based on that helper upgrade.

Using a helper upgrade probably would use less upgrade memory, which might or might not matter to you. It might use more or less keymove memory, which might or might not matter to you.

2. If I used a mixed mode 0/4 protocol, I can't use a setup-### command to detect valid keypresses, correct?

Right. But whether or not you choose to use that helper upgrade for your final config, you could temporarily load an upgrade for just 128.4 in order to test EFC numbers within 128.4

But I think you'll find enough other people have already done those tests and posted the results here and at RC, that there isn't anything to be gained by doing it again yourself.

EDIT: Found the answer in KM!

I hope the answer you found was to ignore EFC numbers and use OBC instead (on the functions sheet specify both the subdevice and the OBC of each function).

When there are multiple executors for one protocol, EFC numbers may not be consistent across executors. The decoder doesn't even attempt to guess which executor you will be using. It computes EFC numbers based on some arbitrarily selected old executor. It's much safer to use OBC numbers, which should not vary in meaning between executors for the same protocol.

[IBNobody]

John,

When you mentioned not having to search for the discrete codes, are you referring to RC's discrete code database?

After stumbling on the Panasonic document, though, I don't think I need to go much farther. I have all the codes I need.