Revox Protocol upgrade for P8/740 (URC-8090B00)

[clarked]

There are Revox device code details in the forums for devices such as the Revox B226, B260, etc. These seem to use an upgrade protocol for the S3C80 proc.

The remote I have (URC-8090) seems to be based on the P8/740, and so even if the device code is OK, the protocol upgrade would not be.

I pulled the S3C80-based protocol into 'Protocol Builder', changed the processor type to P8/740 and regenerated the protocol. The regeneration seemed to go OK, but I didn't meet with any success in being able to have the remote control any of the devices.

Anybody successfully controlling the older Revox B-series of equipment with a P8/740-based remote?

(Details:

1. Device(s): Revox B251, B215, B126, B160
2. Type of device: (Amp, Cassette, CD and Tuner - respectively
3. Year: 1980's
4. JP1 Remote model: URC-8090B00
5. JP1 user? Yes
6. Still have original remote? No
7. Checked the file section? Yes
8. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes
9. Partially working setup code? No
10. Learning remote question? No)

[whompus]

Do none of these setup codes for the 8090 give you anything to start with?

Amp/Tuner 140, 186, 189
Cassette 029
CD 113, 157

[The Robman]

I think you might be onto something as AMP/0140 and CD/0113 both use the $00A0 protocol, and at a quick glance, the timings look the same as the protocol that I wrote. I'll look into this some more when I get a chance.

[clarked]

Thanks for the reply.

Ever since the remote was new, both CD 113 and AMP 140 would respond with "NOT FOUND", and so I've haven't been able to try them. (The other listed codes do not seem to solicit a response from the equipment). (I had always assumed - perhaps incorrectly - that the remote may have been an earlier version, so perhaps didn't have those code in it).

A neophyte question here - if CD 113 and AMP 140 are missing, to add in an equivalent to try, should it then be just a matter of going into something like RemoteMaster, selecting the 8090, selecting protocol id 0040, defining a keymap, and then using ir.exe to upload the protocol and device def'n?

[whompus]

I am not real sure I understand the bug in that remote. In any case make a backup of your remote. Then load this ir file to test. If it don't power on the tuner do a keymove for power and use efc 087 to see if it may be that one as well.

[The Robman]

Hey Whomus, the URC-8090 remote has a bug in it that prevents upgrades from working that have protocol upgrades, unless the upgrade is defined as being limited to a single device button. (This is pointed out by the big red warning in the lower half of the IR screen).

To fix this you could click EDIT on the upgrade, then change the "Works With" selection from "all devices" to the device button of your choice.

[whompus]

I kinda thought that's what it was telling me. The added place for device independent section I had never seen before kinda threw me off.

[The Robman]

The device specific feature is there for when these remotes are used as OEM remotes. The only reason we support it at all is because it's the only work around that works for upgrades that require a protocol upgrade.

Once I've had a chance to verify what signals are put out by the $00A0 protocol, I will update my Revox upgrade files to use this protocol.

[clarked]

Thanks for the test IR file. While it didn't work out-of-the-box, it did give me enough data to figure out more.

First, the 0x00a0 protocol in the IR test was the same that Protocol Builder provides, and I was able to use that protocol to accidentally control another piece of Revox gear (B-203 timer).

That let me know that the protocol should be OK, but perhaps some of the data wasn't quite kosher.

Depending on the piece of equipment, different items of B-series gear may need to see one of two different addresses (0xE or 0xF).

The four bits of address data appears to be encoded across the two "Fixed Data" bytes.

I'm not certain exactly how the 4 bits of the address are encoded there the value provided did allow me to control some functions on the equipment.

Looking at the hex/EFC for those couple keys and then comparing that against the 6-bit command data from the Revox documentation I was able to determine that you need to take the "Data Bits" from the Revox "Table of all IR codes" and then add two trailing zeros.

For instance, the Revox manual indicates that the command code for "next channel" is 0x26, and it says the "data bits" for this is 100110. The 'working' hex code for this function turned out to be 0x98.

To get from the revox code to the IR hex code:

Add on two trailing 0's...

1001 10 -> 1001 1000 = 0x98

I now have basic communication with the B-160 (tuner) and B-215 (cassette), and should be able to fill in all the keys over the next while.

Regards,

DC

[The Robman]

I have created a new version of the Revox upgrade that uses the official UEI $00A0 protocol. This version supports the 2-part signals that some Revox devices require (where the first part uses device code 0 and the second part uses device code 30), but it's not a combo protocol like the one that I wrote before, so it will only support one device code pair at a time.

Here's the KM file...
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3146

I have also bundled together all the UEI upgrades that use the $00A0 protocol into a single zip file...
https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3147

[clarked]

I am now successfully controlling a Revox B-126 (CD), B-215 (Tape) and B-160 (Tuner) through a URC-8090B00.

Thank you.

[The Robman]

Could you load your KM or RM files into the file section when you're done, and then post links to them here please. In the upgrade files, be sure to refer to the functions by their true function names (ie, the button name on the original Revox remote) rather than the name of the URC-8090 button that you assigned them to.

I'd like to compile a master list of Revox functions.

[clarked]

In terms of the Revox function names, the best source may be the original Revox docs for them.

Specifically, Revox put out a document entitled "IR Remote Control Systems - Service Instructions". It covers their B201, B201CD and B205 remotes. It also covered their B203 timer/controller which can pass on IR data, as well as a stand alone receiver (B202) and transceiver (B206) [In addition to the IR interfaces on the stereo equipment, the components were also provided with a wired serial interface between the items. Things like the B203, B202, etc. could actually reside in other rooms, and then the IR data would be transferred to the destination equipment via the serial connection.]

An earlier "Revox Codes" posting had a link to https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3099. The table included in that PDF is from the Service Manual, and outlines all of the recognized IR commands (which devices they're recognized on, and the top 6 bits for the commands). While perhaps not stated in that document, other directly equivalent devices will also respond to the same commands. e.g., the Revox B126 CD player will respond to the same items as the B226 player. Same for the B160/B260 tuners).

The main sending unit in the Revox B-series of remotes is the SAA-1250 IC. This chip can generally send 3 different addresses - 10, 15 and 16. (The documentation numbers them 1-16, but they get encoded in binary so the numbers are really 0->15.)

The B-series Revox audio equipment generally accepts address 15 (encoded as 0xe) or 16 (encoded as 0xf).

In terms of the referenced table, the items marked with a "D" mean "Commands only without *-key" (The * key being a specific button on the remotes). Similarly items marked with "*" are "Commands only with *-key".

This appears to be a statement of address reception. D = address 15 (0x0E). * = address 16 (0x0F).

Most of the remotes will 'normally' transmit address 15. The remotes have an "*" button on them, and when this is pressed, it is address 16 which is used.

At least one remote (the B205) has an additional button marked with a solid dot (available to the right of the "*" button). When pressed, that will command the remote to transmit on address 10 (0x9).

The Revox B203 Timer Controller (which is also an IR Controller system, which can route all of the serial data to external devices as well as schedule recordings, etc.) responds to address 10. When the "dot" button is pressed on the B205 remote, the B203 will interpret some of the standard function keys for its own use. Specifically:

'normal' key name —> B203 function:
Pause —> Time
<< —> Event
>> —> Select
Play —> Test
Stop —> Exit
Rec —> Prog

(Volume+ and Volume- are used to scroll through menus on the B203. The 'enter' key is used to select from the menus.)

Note: The referenced table has a note which says "Commands not accessibe via hand-held IR-Transmitter." It appears that that would more correctly be written as "Commands not accessible via standard Revox remotes", as those commands do appear to be responded to if programmed in to a current remote and sent.

Now that I have things generally talking, I may not be as quick to dot all the i's and cross all the t's (i.e., to complete all the maps) - but when done, I'd (of course) be happy to post the files.

Thanks to all for the info.

David

[The Robman]

That PDF file from the earlier post lists the functions that each device uses, but it doesn't list the address bits values. The "device codes" that we use include the Revox pulse bit, so they are the Revox address code times 2.

In the zip file of Revox upgrades that I posted, there were two different device code options. One of the files uses device code 28 (Revox code 14) for all buttons and all of the others used a combination where the first occurrance of the signal uses device code 0 and all repeats of the signal use device code 30 (Revox code 15).

When I created the original Revox upgrade that you found, we discovered that two of the buttons used device code 18 (Revox code 9) rather than device code 28 (Revox 14) that all the other buttons were using.

How does this jive with what you understand about the Revox device codes?

[clarked]

In terms of the earlier PDF, it is true that it doesn't explicitly show the address bits; however, the data is 'sort of' present in the table.

There is an earlier note in the original document which clarifies that it is addresses 14 and 15 which are being discussed in that latter table. The note at the top of the provided table - about the use of the "*" key - is really talking about the address in use.

To expand a bit more on my earlier note, the SAA1250 chip (xref: http://www.meditronik.com.pl/doc/plus/saa1250.pdf) in the Revox B2xx remotes is used in three main, different addressing modes (the chip itself supports a fourth addressing mode - the 'Free Address Selection' mode - however, that doesn't seem to be used in the Revox remotes).

From the SAA1250 datasheet, the three modes are:
Option I: After contact actuation the first command is issued with address 1, all following commands with address 16 as long as the contact is actuated.
Option II: All commands are sent with address 15.
Option III: All commands are sent with address 10.

The 'normal' mode on the remotes (i.e., the mode where just the regular remote function keys are pressed, without any other keys), the SAA1250 is used in Option II (i.e., SAA1250 address 15, Revox code 14).

With the "*" key on the remote, Option I is selected. (i.e., Revox code 0 followed by Revox code 15 for repeats).

When the "." key (solid dot key) on the remote is used, Option III is selected (Revox code 9).

The three modes seem to generally line up with the observations you've made.