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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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Location: Chicago, IL
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 Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the raw data for the POWER button...
+3312 -1672 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240
If you globally replace "+424 -406 " with "0" and '+424 -1240 " with "1" you will see the binary for this button. You will end up with 1 more bit than I did because the leadout pair looks like a "1" bit. This is because you only captured the first repeat of the signal (maybe the remote only sent it once) so there's no way for the URC-8811 to know how long the "silence" is at the end, so it arbitrarily treated it as a "1" bit. You did capture the repeating signal for the LEFT and DOWN buttons, so you can see a different leadout pair for those two, but even then it doesn't tell us the full story. "130646" just happens to be the longest time that the URC-8811 can record, so the real leadout-off time is probably quite a bit longer than that.
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Here's the raw data for the POWER button...
+3312 -1672 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -406 +424 -1240
If you globally replace "+424 -406 " with "0" and '+424 -1240 " with "1" you will see the binary for this button. You will end up with 1 more bit than I did because the leadout pair looks like a "1" bit. This is because you only captured the first repeat of the signal (maybe the remote only sent it once) so there's no way for the URC-8811 to know how long the "silence" is at the end, so it arbitrarily treated it as a "1" bit. You did capture the repeating signal for the LEFT and DOWN buttons, so you can see a different leadout pair for those two, but even then it doesn't tell us the full story. "130646" just happens to be the longest time that the URC-8811 can record, so the real leadout-off time is probably quite a bit longer than that. |
And the JP1 Gang really reverse engineered this whole thing??? I'm really impressed.
I also think the RM/IR interface is a masterpiece. To say nothing of how the extenders managed to take control of the remote using device upgrade codes.
The whole thing is amazing.
Thanks to all -- Vincent |
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | | I agree that we don't have the whole signal. As for 35 vs. 36 bits, I guess that depends on whether you regard the last bit as a lead out pair or not. I was treating it as a bit only because I assumed there was more data to follow that we're not seeing. |
OK, we weren't disagreeing. I just misunderstood you.
This type of signal must have a leadout.
So IF IT WERE the entire signal then it would be only 35 bits more than ordinary Fujitsu and the last burst would be leadout. But since we have inferred that it is not the entire signal, we agree that the last burst represents the 36'th bit beyond normal Fujitsu. The leadout is lost out beyond some number of further bits.
I'm not sure enough of how a JP1 remote truncates learns that are too long for me to be confident that last bit is learned correctly. If we get a delayed learn to pattern match against the end of this learn, I wouldn't reject a match that differs in only that 36'th extra bit.
| The Robman wrote: | | Here's the binary as I see it... |
If you tweak the column boundaries (a lot) in IR's "gap" decode, you can see that the misc section decodes 83 bits (all but that last one) for you in hex. |
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The Robman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Also, as the 1 and 0 pairs both use the same ON time, there's no way to tell if that last bit was going to be a 1 or a 0. But regardless, it's academic as long as don't know what the rest of the signal is.
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| johnsfine wrote: | | If you want to try that, start by pressing the keys at the same time. The 8811 probably takes longer to start capturing than the other remote takes to start learning. Then adjust based on what learned signals you get to press the buttons almost at the same time. In "correct" learning you press a key to start the 8811 capturing then take a decent fraction of a second to get to the key to start the original remote sending. You'll need to discover whether you should reduce or eliminate or reverse that fraction of a second. |
I tried learning the end of Down at 64 using the above techniques, but not successfully.
Turns out that Power is discrete. I had learned Power Off to the Power button. Learning Power On to Shift Power failed like the special buttons failed.
The temperature ranges by two degrees from 64 to 88. That is 13 settings. That seems to contradict the conclusion about the meaning of the 001 and 111 that we saw.
I've been thinking of how to do key assignment on the 8811 if all these problems can be solved. Without a display for temperature, the buttons used to select temperature need to be very intuitive. To do this, I think, it has to be that pressing two numeric keys, 7-0 for 70 degrees, is the only way to go. Is this possible to program?
If I use ToadTog is there a way for the switches to clear themselves after a delay. If not, the remote could be left in a very confusing state.
Alternatively, I could devote Shift and XShift for the 7 and 8 state. I have no other need for shift since I prefer LKP and DKP. But is there some way to have the two shift buttons only work for one device and be normal numeric keys in the others.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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The Robman
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Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: |
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The 001/111 thing was just a wild guess, if and when you're able to capture the complete signals for each step along the way, we will then be able to correctly determine the format of the data stream.
Then, rather than force you to have to program each temperature setting discretely, we could write a custom protocol which would give you TEMP+ and TEMP- buttons. To make this work, we would store a value in a permanent register and then the T+ and T- buttons would increment or decrement this value and send the result in the data stream.
Do you have the ability/willingness to setup CaptureIR and use it to get the complete data stream?
John, could you outline a "step by step" for new CaptureIR users?
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The Robman
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Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Hey Vincent,
Could you test the upgrade below to see if it works the basic functions. I have programmed them to the same buttons that you learned them to. Don't use this in AUX mode unless you delete the learned signals first.
Upgrade Code 0 = 37 D0 (Cable/2000) Friedrich Air Conditioner (KM v8.37)
F8 00 18 A9 03 D7 39 FF F7 F7 BF F7 C9 F7 61 F7
A1 F7 49
End
Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 F8 (S3C8+) Fujitsu (KM v8.37)
45 91 52 8B 18 8F 45 08 08 00 DA 00 C6 00 DA 02
7D 27 70 06 D1 03 40 40 F8 92 68 55 26 20 01 08
03 37 03 0B 37 00 13 56 28 F7 C4 22 1C 8B 0B 37
00 05 C4 26 1C 8B 03 C4 24 1C 8D 01 46
End
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Last edited by The Robman on Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Then, rather than force you to have to program each temperature setting discretely, we could write a custom protocol which would give you TEMP+ and TEMP- buttons. To make this work, we would store a value in a permanent register and then the T+ and T- buttons would increment or decrement this value and send the result in the data stream.
Do you have the ability/willingness to setup CaptureIR and use it to get the complete data stream? |
I really am not sure that a TEMP+/TEMP- interface is the right one. With VOL+/VOL- or CH+/CH-, you have immediate feedback on the effect of the button push. But the feedback from TEMP+/TEMP-, given that the air conditioner has no display, is delayed for a long time and even then is effected by all sorts of variables and needs a additional device, a thermometer, to see the delayed effect clearly.
Is there some way to use the keypad in the normal way -- enter the number of degrees. I suggested two ways -- ToadTog and Shift previously -- although they both had unsolved problems "Unsolved" given my limited knowledge.
How about this? Since potocols can have registers -- didn't know that -- how about a memory of the last two numberic buttons pushed (a two byte shift register). Then Enter would send the code for the stored temperature. (The double byte shift register could be optimized to a double nibble one -- values 0 2 4 6 7 8).
I'm going to look into CaptureIR.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Hey Vincent,
Could you test the upgrade below to see if it works the basic functions. I have programmed them to the same buttons that you learned them to. Don't use this in AUX mode unless you delete the learned signals first.
Upgrade Code 0 = 37 D0 (Cable/2000)
F8 00 11 03 D7 39 FF F7 F7 BF
End
Upgrade Protocol 0 = 00 F8 (S3C8+) Fujitsu (KM v8.37)
45 91 52 8B 18 8F 45 08 08 00 DA 00 C6 00 DA 02
7D 27 70 06 D1 03 40 40 F8 92 68 55 26 20 01 08
03 37 03 0B 37 00 13 56 28 F7 C4 22 1C 8B 0B 37
00 05 C4 26 1C 8B 03 C4 24 1C 8D 01 46
End |
The Power button works (Off, not On, just like what I learned). But the others so not. IR shows only the Power button programmed.
Thanks -- Vincent |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Kruskal wrote: | | I'm going to look into CaptureIR. |
Do I understand it that CaptureIR requires me to build a device -- apparently a simple project, but it would be an adventure for me.
Vincent |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, that was my mistake, replace the device upgrade with this...
Upgrade Code 0 = 37 D0 (Cable/2000)
F8 00 18 A9 03 D7 39 FF F7 F7 BF F7 C9 F7 61 F7
A1 F7 49
End
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Sorry, that was my mistake, replace the device upgrade with this...
Upgrade Code 0 = 37 D0 (Cable/2000)
F8 00 18 A9 03 D7 39 FF F7 F7 BF F7 C9 F7 61 F7
A1 F7 49
End |
All five buttons now work.
Super -- Vincent |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Kruskal wrote: | | (The double byte shift register could be optimized to a double nibble one -- values 0 2 4 6 7 8). |
Although a full double byte shift register would be better. Then 0 1 2 3 4 5 as a tens digit could all set 64 as would 60 62 and 9 as tens digit could set 88. Odd settings could set the next even number.
More robust that way, I think.
Vincent |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a link to the KM file that I used:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3008
As I don't know which A/C functions you programmed to each button, I have labelled them using the URC-8811 button names, but I'd like to update it if possible. So, could you list which function you programmed to each of the arrow buttons.
You could also try creating some dummy upgrades with all of the gap OBCs to see if there are any other functions that this unit supports.
Maybe somebody else who already has CaptureIR up and running would be willing to capture the temp buttons for you.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Last edited by The Robman on Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kruskal
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The Robman wrote: | Here's a link to the KM file that I used:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=3008
As I don't know which A/C functions you programmed to each button, I have labelled them using the URC-8811 button names, but I'd like to update it if possible. So, could you list which function you programmed to each of the arrow buttons.
You could also try creating some dummy upgrades with all of the gap OBCs to see if there are any other functions that this unit supports.
Maybe somebody else who already has CaptureIR up and running would be willing to capture the temp buttons for you. |
Power: Power Off
Up: Swing Vertical
Down: Swing Vertical Set
Right: Swing Horizontal
Left: Swing Horizontal Set
I don't understand creating dummy upgrade with an OBC. What is an OBC. I could try more of the 256 EFCs with the protocol I have. But it's really hard to see what is happening with an air conditioner. But it is possible because it beeps when it does something. So I'd just have to figure out what changed when it beeps. (Assuming it doesn't always beep when it detects its protocol.)
I'm in Westchester NY in case someone wants to volunteer the CaptureIR thing.
Thanks again -- Vincent |
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