JP1 Remotes

If I have two device upgrades with heaps and heaps of keymoves, use external functions, and if I also have some functions shared by other devices, made in IR, will multiplex work? If there are any restrictions, that's the end of subject. If not, I'll back with more details because my brain got stuck on keymoves.
I've got 190 bytes to play with, could rent some space to Capn Trips

You can use keymoves, but they will be permenant, they won't switch device when you multiplex.

It might help if you understand what the muliplexor really does. All it does is change the setup code assigned to the device button, so you would get exactly the same result if you were to manually program a different setup code to the device button, which would also leave all of the keymoves in place.

The Robman wrote:You can use keymoves, but they will be permenant, they won't switch device when you multiplex.

That's what I hoped would be.
But when you build a keymove it wants to know device type and doesn't ask me which setup code -- that's where I'm losing it.
So I got two Audio devices, setup code 1111 and 2222, and I want them to share the AUD or Rcvr button. Are you saying that if I go and multiplex what I now have, it will know which setup code to use even for keymoves used by other devices? Say I got a keymove for input selection for DVD or VCR using all inputs on 1111. I don't want that keymove to work when I'm in 2222 mode. Same thing for LKP, or DSM. Am I confusing you or myself here?

The Robman wrote:It might help if you understand what the muliplexor really does. All it does is change the setup code assigned to the device button...

That's precisely how I understood it. No problem here.

A keymove most certainly DOES want to know what setup code is relates to, but it doesn't have to be the same setup code as the one assigned to the device button.

Here's an exercise to prove my point.

Program a device button with the code for your TV, then keymove the POWER button to the MENU button. Then re-program the device button with the code for your VCR. Test that it works, then press the MENU button and watch your TV turn off!

Oh, nice. Good experiment. I actually did that sort of thing a while back but using the multiplex keymove, not on the General tab. The concept is the same. This might be simpler than I thought. One complication is I've got a pair of devices to handle in unison if it's this Audio then it goes with this DVD, and if it's the other it goes with the other DVD - the fun is only beginning. Thanks again, Rob, I'm so glad it's not doomed

Follow up question - Would you suggest to remove special protocols from the RDF for the construction time? On the Special protocols sheet you don't see the setup code the way you do it the hard way.

It's funny, but in some people's view, the fact that keymoves are statik is a drawback of the multiplexor.

I don't follow why you would want to remove the special protocols from the RDF. Think of the special protocol keymoves as being keymoves from a third setup code.

For example, you might want the TV/VCR button to always work the TV/VR function of your VCR, so you might copy it from VCR mode to all the other modes. Then you might set up a multiplexor to switch between two DVD players in DVD mode, but regardless of which DVD player is active, the TV/VCR button will still work the VCR.

The special protocol keymoves are like that VCR keymove, they have nothing to do with the setup code assigned to the current device button, and the setup code that they refer to is never assigned to an actual device button.

Thanks Rob. I'll take it from here. I'll be back if it continues to be muddy. Gotta think about it some more in the context of my stuff and things already built.

The Robman wrote:I don't follow why you would want to remove the special protocols from the RDF. Think of the special protocol keymoves as being keymoves from a third setup code.

Mad idea. Confusion on my part. Thanks for the sanity check

The Robman wrote:For example, you might want the TV/VCR button to always work the TV/VR function of your VCR, so you might copy it from VCR mode to all the other modes. Then you might set up a multiplexor to switch between two DVD players in DVD mode, but regardless of which DVD player is active, the TV/VCR button will still work the VCR.

I have no problem with this VCR and two DVDs scenario because the DVD keymoves, if any, belong to each upgrade setup code, or let's so assume.
But what if I were to multiplex two VCRs? And you copy from one VCR to some devices, and from the other to other devices? That's where I can't quite sort it out.
To complicate more, suppose you want LKP (extended, unextended - doesn't matter) on some VCR1 button to do one thing, and VCR2 to do something else, IR doesn't want to hear about setup codes on the Special Protocols sheet, it just asks for device.

Silly question.

Who uses VCR's in the 21st century anyway?!?!?!?!

I use 5 VCRs. On rare occasions I'm playing a tape in one while recording 4 other channels in the others.

ElizabethD wrote:I have no problem with this VCR and two DVDs scenario because the DVD keymoves, if any, belong to each upgrade setup code

So you understand that if you programmed a keymove from the DVD1 setup code to a button, it would stay there even after you have used the multiplexor to switch to DVD2.

ElizabethD wrote:But what if I were to multiplex two VCRs? And you copy from one VCR to some devices, and from the other to other devices? That's where I can't quite sort it out.

The remote doesn't care whether you're using VCR codes or DVD codes, it treats them all the same.

If I understand correctly, your question is something like this:

"I am using the multiplexor to switch between setup codes for my two VCRs, let's call them VCR1 and VCR2, on the VCR device button. While the VCR button is in "VCR1" mode, can I copy the MENU button over to DVD mode? Can I then use the multiplexor to switch the VCR button to "VCR2" mode and do another keymove, this time copying the GUIDE button to CD mode?"

And the answer is, absolutely yes. Keeping in mind that all the multiplexor does is change the setup code assigned to the device button, would you expect the following to be OK...

1) You program VCR/0162 to the VCR button.
2) You keymove the MENU button from VCR mode to DVD mode.
3) You program VCR/0454 to the VCR button.
4) You keymove the GUIDE button from VCR mdoe to CD mode.

If you don't see anything wrong with those steps (and there isn't anything wrong with them), you should be able to see that using the multiplexor to do steps 1 and 3 for you doesn't change the overall picture.

ElizabethD wrote:To complicate more, suppose you want LKP (extended, unextended - doesn't matter) on some VCR1 button to do one thing, and VCR2 to do something else, IR doesn't want to hear about setup codes on the Special Protocols sheet, it just asks for device.

Now that you can't do, because the LKP button is a keymove and the keymoves remain in place even after you've changed the setup code assigned to the device button. You would have to use button1 for LKP1 (for VCR1) and button2 for LKP2 (for VCR2).

Capn Trips wrote:Silly question.

Who uses VCR's in the 21st century anyway?!?!?!?!

I got one. Hey, at one point it could tune to more channels than the TV could
Actually, I mention VCRs only because Rob gave an example using VCR, so I just wanted to fit into what's comfortable for him.
Reality is I got two receivers, and DVD, TV, VCR hooked to one, and CD to another. And if I can figure it out conceptually, I want to multiplex the pair of receivers and the pair of DVD/CDs. As if I didn't have enough device buttons. so there.


Edit - ooops! I see Rob just posted an answer, time to think.

Capn Trips wrote:Silly question. Who uses VCR's in the 21st century anyway?!?!?!?!

I do, but not for the reasons that John posted, modern people use multiple PVRs for that purpose! 8)

I use the VCR, albeit rarely, when I want a permanent copy of something that I've recorded on my PVR (because I haven't gotten around to hooking up my DVD recorder yet).

I actually have 2 VCRs in my main system, one is a standard US model Panasonic, and the other is a "worldwide" Samsung model that can play and record tapes using all of the main TV systems (ie, NTSC, PAL, SECAM, etc). I can use this unit to make copies of our home movies to send to my mum in England.

ElizabethD wrote:Reality is I got two receivers, and DVD, TV, VCR hooked to one, and CD to another. And if I can figure it out conceptually, I want to multiplex the pair of receivers and the pair of DVD/CDs.

Now that I know what you're trying to do, my answer might be simpler. It's best to combine devices that don't need keymoves. This is why I said that some people might consider it a drawback that keymoves are permanent. If you need to use keymoves to fill in the blanks for a device, those keymoves will remain in place when you switch over to the other device. Now, if the second device doesn't need any keymoves and it doesn't need the buttons that you used keymoves on for the first device, then you might be OK.

In my case, I use the multiplexor to stack my 2 DVD players, my cable box and my camcorder onto the AUX2 button. All 4 of these are used infrequently and all 4 can make do with either the built in setup code or an upgrade, no keymoves are needed for any of them.

The Robman wrote:If I understand correctly, your question is something like this:

"I am using the multiplexor to switch between setup codes for my two VCRs, let's call them VCR1 and VCR2, on the VCR device button. While the VCR button is in "VCR1" mode, can I copy the MENU button over to DVD mode? Can I then use the multiplexor to switch the VCR button to "VCR2" mode and do another keymove, this time copying the GUIDE button to CD mode?"

Yup. Good phrasing, thanks. And all that can be done.

The Robman wrote:

ElizabethD wrote:To complicate more, suppose you want LKP (extended, unextended - doesn't matter) on some VCR1 button to do one thing, and VCR2 to do something else, IR doesn't want to hear about setup codes on the Special Protocols sheet, it just asks for device.

Now that you can't do, because the LKP button is a keymove and the keymoves remain in place even after you've changed the setup code assigned to the device button. You would have to use button1 for LKP1 (for VCR1) and button2 for LKP2 (for VCR2).

I don't think that can be constructed, because how would you tell IR which LKP or DSM, to use for which VCR. Can it? That's really what started the whole thread in the first place, no?

Bottom line feedback:
The simplest thing was to follow your suggestion - I ended up multiplexing 3 simple boxes, of which only one has any keymoves at all, and I put that one on a real button as a primary. It is here convenient that the keymoves stay with the setup code, so it's no problem for me. It all behaves in IR and in the remote just as you said throughout this thread. So now I've got ten devices in and room to spare on the 6131 and the PVR device button is unused for when we leave the dark ages and go modern

I also now know where I lost it in the above discussion: the forgotten definition of keymoves of the Special Protocol variety. Controls the remote not the device Nowhere it's more important to remember than in the case of multiplexing. Once this came back, the rest was simple. Too bad I can't do any of this fun on the 8910 in 6 free bytes, but then the extra gear is on the virtual devices so I'm not complaining.

In any case, tons of thanks for these explanations! Good fun