JP1 Remotes

I would like to configure the POWER button of my 9910 to power off my TV and my receiver.

The TV is an RCA (code 0047) and the Receiver/AMP is also an RCA RT2500 (code 1254). When I use the original remotes, if I power on the TV, both the Receiver and the TV will power on. When I press the ON/OFF button in the TV mode the TV will power off, but if I press the ON/OFF button again the Receiver will also power off. I would like the OneForAll 9910 to work the same way, but I am willing to accept a long press of the POWER button to turn off both the TV and Receiver.

Any help or directions of how to accomplish this would be appreciate. If there are any posts that describes the tasks, please point them out to me. I have spend several days (weeks) reading the posts and am a little overwhelmed at the knowledge contained here.

I am using IR to create macros from the learned keys of my remotes. I can upload the IR file if any would like to see it.

Thanks!

Remote is OFA 9910
TV is RCA = code 0047
Receiver/Amp for home theater is RCA RT2500 = code 1254
VCR is Sharp VCH800 = code 0048
DVD is Zenith DVD221 = code 0591
SAT is Echostar = code 0775

What follows is a rambling, disjointed reply, for which I apologize, but try to bludgeon through it, if you can.

So let me get this straight.

(a) On the OEM remotes upon the FIRST press of "On/Off" BOTH devices come "ON", upon the second press (in TV mode) the TV powers off, and on ANY subsequent press, the Receiver powers off. (I presume this behaviour is the same whether you are using the TV remote or the Receiver remote) Correct?

(b) On the 9910, using built-in setup codes, the power button will toggle the power for the TV or Receiver only depending on what device mode you are in. Is that ALSO correct?

I am guessing that your OEM remotes are using discrete power functions, whilst the 9910 setup codes are only using toggle power functions. You need to identify these discrete functions.

Questions:

(0) Does any press of the OEM remote(s) power BOTH off from the same button press?

(0.2) After powering both devices ON, and NOT shifting to TV mode, what does a press of the "On/Off" button do? Both off? or just the receiver?

(0.1) Does any sequence of presses get the two devices out-of-synch, so that one powers on while the other powers off?

I think your best bet is to identify all of these situations, and then LEARN the commands being sent in each circumstance. Then when you decode the signals, you can determine how many different functions you're talking about. After that, it's a relatively simple matter to build an upgrade using those functions, and from that, the macro/LKP/DKP you want.

More questions to keep in mind as you test:

(1) Using the OEM remote, when you press "On/OFF", BOTH the TV and Receiver come on. Are they responding to the SAME IR signal, or is the OEM remote sending a 2-signal macro, one to each device?

(2) When you press "On/Off" again what signal - and how many signals - are sent?

(3)Using your 9910, am I correct that you have NO device upgrades installed and you are using ONLY built-in setup codes? If so, what buttons (in which device mode) for the RCA devices have the "Power On" functions, and what buttons have the "Power Off" functions?

What I'm trying to narrow down here is whether or not your OEM remotes are using "discrete" On and Off functions or not. Regardless, you need to try to find such functions - the standard RCA discrete ON is EFC 227 and Off is 219 - to use in any macros or LKP/DKPs.

If the built-in setup codes you are using have discrete "On" and "Off" commands, then it's a simple matter to build macros, LKPs or DKPs to accomplish what you wish. If these are "toggle" only power functions, then it gets a bit more challenging - not impossible, but requiring some creativity - perhaps building and installing device upgrades, or at a minimum, building some Keymoves and referencing them in any macro or LKP/DKP.

Oh yeah, please upload your IR file. It couldn't hurt. (But please use the "notes" capability within IR to describe what is IN the file, and post a LINK to the file in this thread).

Thanks for the reply, Capn Trips.

(a) The Power button of the original remotes do not turn on the devices. To turn on the devices, I press the appropriate device button on their multifunction remotes to power on. Pressing the Power button on the remote will power off the selected device. The 9910 works in this manner, also.

(b) The Power button on the 9910 will toggle the selected device, but I use the device select button to power on and the Power button to toggle off. This I am OK with this operation.

So it appears that the original remotes are using toggle on/off and not discrete power functions.

(0) None of the remotes (TV or Receiver) will power BOTH off from the same button press. Actually, this is not true. Using the Receiver remote and TV select, if I cover the IR sender and press the Power button, then point the remote to the sets and press the Power again, BOTH will go off.

I have upload my IR file to the diagnostic file location. It is "OFA-URC-9910_NN4RB_Work#3.ir." I don't know how to post the URL for it.

(0.2) The Power button will only toggle the TV or device off and on. To power off the receiver, I must select it.

(0.1) Oh yeah! It is a real problem for the the wife and grand kids!!!

I am still experimenting. If you view the IR file, you can see that the learned function for the second press on the Power button is multiple commands. I have tried this several times, but I get different commands. I was under the impression that learn functions are only one command and not multiple commands.

I have experimented some more and found that:
Protocol Device OBC HEX RFC
RCA 12 12 3B 219

will turn the RCA RT2500 receiver off - actually toggle it off and on without affecting the TV.

Back to the original post question, I have a file "LongDoubleKeyPress - 8910_9910_HtPro.zip" in the file section. I am going to read it and see if I understand it and can apply that information in solving my problem.

Thanks for any help.

NN4RB

EDIT: UPON FURTHER REVIEW AND ATTEMPTING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR IMMEDIATE CONCERN, ALTHOUGH THE ANSWER IN THIS POST IS VALID - IT MAY BE TOO MUCH TO DIGEST AND A WASTE OF YOUR TIME. READ THE ANSWER IMMEDIATELY BELOW THIS ONE FIRST. THEN YOU CAN COME BACK TO THIS ONE

The Cap'n

nn4rb wrote: (a) The Power button of the original remotes do not turn on the devices. To turn on the devices, I press the appropriate device button on their multifunction remotes to power on. Pressing the Power button on the remote will power off the selected device. The 9910 works in this manner, also.

(b) The Power button on the 9910 will toggle the selected device, but I use the device select button to power on and the Power button to toggle off. This I am OK with this operation.

So it appears that the original remotes are using toggle on/off and not discrete power functions.

I disagree with your assertion here. It sounds as though the original remotes CLEARLY use discrete Power ON signals, and POSSIBLY use discrete OFF as well.

nn4rb wrote:
I have upload my IR file to the diagnostic file location. It is "OFA-URC-9910_NN4RB_Work#3.ir." I don't know how to post the URL for it.

When you are typing a message to post, you should see a series of Tags available as options above the box in which you are typing. One of those tags is "URL". Click there, type in the link address, and click "Close Tags".

nn4rb wrote: (0.2) The Power button will only toggle the TV or device off and on. To power off the receiver, I must select it.

HUH? On the OEM remote? or the 9910? in what mode?

nn4rb wrote: If you view the IR file, you can see that the learned function for the second press on the Power button is multiple commands. I have tried this several times, but I get different commands. I was under the impression that learn functions are only one command and not multiple commands.

Learning, in general, will not accurately learn a macro, if these are indeed two separate commands sent as a macro, so you need to try to learn each "On"and "Off"command for the receiver and TV separately, if you can figure out when the OEM remotes send just that single command. Try to learn the "Power" button when in Receiver mode. I would expect that to send only a single "Off" signal to the receiver rather than two signals to two separate components.

nn4rb wrote: I have experimented some more and found that:
Protocol Device OBC HEX RFC
RCA 12 12 3B 219

will turn the RCA RT2500 receiver off - actually toggle it off and on without affecting the TV.

Well, it can't be both a discrete Off and Toggle. EFC 219 (which is NOT OBC 12, but is OBC 59) is usually a discrete Off on RCA components.

nn4rb wrote: Back to the original post question, I have a file "LongDoubleKeyPress - 8910_9910_HtPro.zip" in the file section. I am going to read it and see if I understand it and can apply that information in solving my problem.

Here's the bottom line: RCA has set up their equipments for "ease" of interoperability with other RCA equipment. Therefore, they have designed it such that the "Input" selections for their TVs and Receivers will ALSO turn on the additional equipment involved, for example - as you clearly identify in your IR file of learned signals - when you press "DVD" on your receiver remote, it sends ONE signal (RCA:5 EFC 227) This signal will turn on your RCA DVD player (if you have one) and also turn on your RCA receiver and select DVD mode on it. This works for all other RCA-branded components. RCA has chosen to set it up such that it changes the DEVICE CODE while using the same EFC/OBC for the "Power On/Select Input" signal. These signals are, in fact, pretty common, and viewable in any of the several RCA receiver upgrades in the file section, for TV inputs, these signals are:

Function/Device number (all RCA Porotocol)/EFC
TV/15/227
SAT/7/227
DVD/5/227
VCR1/14/227
VCR2/13/227
CD/8/227
Tape/9/227
Phono/10/227
Tuner/12/227

So the receiver responds to signals from MULTIPLE device codes, which is unusual for most components. If you learned a bunch of other signals from your receiver OEM remote (in receiver mode) and decoded them, you would see that they are (in all likelihood) all RCA protocol Device 12 signals. The "Off" codes for all of those equipments are also the same devices but use EFC 219 (RCA:xx/219). Hence the discrete off for most RCA tuners/receivers is RCA:12/219, and the discrete off for RCA TVs is RCA:15/219 and so on. I recommend that instead of using the built-in RCVR/1254 setup code, you install one of the RCA receiver upgrades, like THIS ONE, and assign the "Input Select" buttons wherever you want them, as well as "Power Off" for the Receiver and then use them as you wish in macros.

Many (I won't say most) users would put appropriate "Discrete On" and Ïnput Select" macros on the device buttons, and then put an "All Off" macro (made up of all the "Discrete Off" functions) on the "Power" button.

I don't know whether you have discrete "On"and "Off" functions for your other components, but the above technique makes it easier when you're worried about getting Power Toggle commands out of synch. Some EFCs worth trying are:

Echostar (SAT/0775) (depending on what address you have set):
Address 1 ON - 242; OFF - 174
Address 2 ON - 002; OFF - 190
Address 3 ON - 234; OFF - 166
Address 4 ON - 250; OFF - 182
Power Toggle - 082

Your Zenith and Sharp devices appear to not have discrete ON and OFF functions, but your DVD player should have a workaround. If pushing "Play" starts it, then "Play-Stop" is a pseudo-discrete ON, adn "Play-Power" is a pseudo-discrete OFF. You might want to investigate the ToadTog special protocol, for a creation of pseudo-discretes, as well.

I have once again babbled incessantly here, but only because I believe you are possibly focussing too narrowly on replicating the OEM remote behaviour. With your remote and equipment, youcan do better (imho).

If you still want to do an LKP or DKP using a mix of toggle and discrete power commands, then knock yourself out. All you do is install that special protocol and device upgrade you've located, and create the desired sequences in the Special Protocol Functions Tab in IR.

OR .. you may ignore all of my previous answer and just do the following:

Create a KeyMove as follows:
Bound Key: Device RCVR/AMP
Key: Sleep (check the "shift" box)
Function to Perform:
Device: double-click RCVR/AMP
(This should populate the Device Type and Setup Code boxes with RCVR:1254)
EFC/Hex Cmd: 219 (ensure EFC is selected, not Hex Cmd)
Note: This assigns Receiver Discrete Off to the shift-sleep button

THEN create a macro:
Bound Key: Power
Macro Definition:
shift-Power
RCVR
shift-sleep

AND modify your existing device button macros by adding a "shift-Power" to the end of each.

This will result in pressing any device button:
(1) turn on the receiver;
(2) select that device input;
(3) set the remote to the selected device mode
(4) send a Power signal to that device

The Power button will then:
(1) Send a "Power" signal to the active device;
(2) Send a "Power Off" signal to your receiver.

This way you have single button press (Device button) to Power On and line up everything) and a single button press (Power) to Power Off both the selected device and receiver (but with a number of toggle power commands floating around there, you may still end up out of synch occasionally.)

Thanks for the two posts. You have given much to think about. I will "play" with this a while, and post an update later.

Regards,

NN4RB

I got the remote working the way I would like. Thanks Capn Trips for the help.

For my solution see the file in the JP1 File Section -> Device Upgrades -> HT Systems section. https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=2753

NN4RB

My only comment is that it appears you still have to individually power up your devices, and then use the device selection macros to get the devices and remote set up to control them.

I'd add the Power-on functions to your device-selection macros.

But that's just me

As noted earlier in a post, there is not a good power on/off for some of the devices. I tried to do the power on sequences in the macros, and it worked. However, noted by you earier, the tendacy to get out of sync was easier and trying to explain to my wife on how to get them back to sync is not a subject that I want to get into.

She (my wife) was also very discusted with the erratic operation of the old remote. So, the project stopped and the remote is in service.

I am off to another project - like using the remote and playing with the TV and watching my wife. (or did I get that reversed!)

Thanks for the advice!!!!

If you've got better things to do, great, but if you don't, you might want to explore the ToadTog special protocol (hint...)