JP1 Remotes

jon_armstrong · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:08 pm Post subject: 1994 Extender3 Problem

I have been using Extender 3 for some time now but I have encountered a strange problem. I noticed some time ago that got an error message when using IR and it would pop up three chioces: 1)extender, 2)extender 3 w/ DSM--I think, and 3)Extender3 (probably not in that order) and if I chose extender 3 I got an error message. I think if I tried to reopen the file it would open.

Somehow in this process, I think it started using the rdf for the plain extender but everthing worked OK and I didn't bother tracking down the problem.

I recently did an ugrade and encountered it again and decided to run Exinstall again and that seemed to fix it, but I assumed that the rdf file in IR 3.21b was the most current and didn't copy the rdf file from the Extender 3 zip. That seemed to work OK until I had some problems and learned the commands to my 7800.

When I attempted to restore my saved 1994 Ext3 EEPROM image, I got the "the RDF file is not in synch with this version of the Program, please copy all rdf files etc." I did not close IR between the 7800 download and opening the 1994 file.

Again I closed the error message and tried to open the file again and it opened but everthing looks fine until yo try to edit the key move for say Aux1/1S and the bound key is wrong and the commands are wrong although in the GUI they are correct.

I have uploaded 1994_EXTENDER3_problem.txt to the diagnosis area and would greatly appreciate any help. I have tried earlier versions of IR (3.11b) copying the rdf from the extender3 zip, deleting the other 1994 extender files and still have the same problem.

I am sure it is simple and self-inflicted, but once you see the file you will see why I don't want to start over.

TIA
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-Jon

Nils_Ekberg · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject:

Jon, have you tried the RDF from the V1.0x (V1.09 as of today) of the RDF's in the Required tools section of jp1 forum. I know the RDF went through some changes since 3.12a or b.
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Nils
Files Section
Diagnosis File Section

Nils_Ekberg · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:40 pm Post subject:

I don't understand what is going on here. I open your IR file and select the extender version 3 and got the synch message. Looked at it and it is RDFSync=2 which is I assume requires IR version 2. Just for the heck of it I changed the RDFSync to 3 and it opened fine but the buttons don't even come close to matching. For one I could not find AUX1/1S keymove. I compared the button values in the old RDF from the extender zip file and the current version 3 RDF and they agree. I will keep tinkering but not sure where to go from here. All that keeps jumping out at me is the image got somehow corrupted.
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Nils
Files Section
Diagnosis File Section

jon_armstrong · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:15 pm Post subject:

Thanks Nils,

I don't think I ever used IR version 2.x on any predecessor file, but I have been using this basic file and adding on to it for some time. I did try your newer rdf files as well and it is quite possible as I kept messing with it that I made it worse.

Any suggestions of basic care and feeding of the rdf files for extenders and the do's and don't s. Like you I load a lot of other people's configurations into IR and I never thought much about it. I rarely close IR between opening two different remotes.

I also tried to convert to extender5 (using a different version of the file), but it was really weird. Maybe, I have the first JP1 virus Smile

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-Jon

jon_armstrong · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:28 pm Post subject:

Hey Nils,

I just realized I had changed the key move to Aux1/Phantom1 (not 1s), but any key moves seem corrupted it you choose edit. They still look OK an the GUI to me.
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-Jon

Nils_Ekberg · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject:

Jon, I seem to be able to edit the keymove OK in IR3.22 with the Extender V3 RDF from the current distribution after I changed it to RDFSync=3. But then again, I may not be seeing the same thing as you since I am not familiar enough with your upgrade to know what to expect. Try changing the RDFSync in the newest RDF for V3 extender and see what you get.

I do have a thought for an outside possibility to get you around the problem. Remove the extender related protocols from the IR file, save it as something else and use it as input for Exinstall for the extender version 5. You may be able to save enough of it with minimal fixes.

On the other note of "good housekeeping" I have made it a habit of always exiting IR after I try someone else’s image since I had a strange occurrence once with my upgrade for the same remote as theirs that I couldn't explain. I think I accidently saved theirs as mine or something silly like that. I have even gone so far as create a seperate set of directories for testing.
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Nils
Files Section
Diagnosis File Section

jon_armstrong · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject:

Update:

I reloaded IR3.21b and the latest rdf's from Nils, opened the file I posted in the diagnosis area as 1994 extender (not extender 3 or any other variant) and it works. I changed some keys loaded it in a different 15-1994 and all is well. Maybe someday, we'll figure out why despite my efforts (I have never used any extender other than 3), IR only wants me or use the basic extender rdf??

I wait till something breaks, though.
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-Jon

Nils_Ekberg · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:15 pm Post subject:

johnsfine · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:53 am Post subject:

I'm sure there is something in this thread I should be answering, but after reading the whole thread a couple times, I can't follow it well enough to answer anything.

When you have problems regarding versions of RDF files you need to be systematic about which RDF files you are actually using. That may require renaming or moving away RDF files that have similar signatures but aren't the one you want to use.

ExtInstall uses an RDF file for the source and a (usually) different RDF file for the destination. Having read this thread, I now realize it was a design flaw in ExtInstall that it doesn't report to you which RDF files it uses. IR.EXE lets you select from the possible RDF files whenever it can't deduce the right one. ExtInstall just picks an RDF. It doesn't give you a choice no matter how ambiguous its own choice is.

When you change IR.EXE to an image with a similar signature (such as between versions of an extender) I believe you do need to exit and restart IR in order to get it to switch RDFs. If you change between models of remote, as you said "between the 7800 download and opening the 1994 file" I'm pretty sure IR selects the RDF the same way it would have if you close and restart it (so you shouldn't need to close and restart it).

ot04298 · Joined: 17 Sep 2003 Posts: 17 Location: Crystal River, FL

I made some notes a while back on the various 15-1994 rdf's, basically from reviewing the [General] and [Settings] sections. Recognizing that there have been a lot of recent changes in the rdf's and that extender 5 is now included in the distruibution, here's my notes FWIW. John's comment above regarding ExtInstall may have something to do w/ my comments in #5 below.

1. RSL6RSL0 (RS 15-1994 6-in-1 Smart).rdf - Basic unextended remote

2. RSL6RSX0 (RS 15-1994 6-in-1 Smart Extender Learned).rdf
3. RSL6RSX0 (RS 15-1994 Extender with Learned).rdf
These 2 are identical except for "Name=…", and are for Extender 2. Suggest deleting 1 and renaming the other as "RSL6RSX0 (RS 15-1994 Ex 2).rdf". Also change the Name entry to include "Extender 2".

4. RSL6RSX3 (15-1994 extender 3).rdf
This is the copy included with the Extender 3 zip file. RDFSynch=2, therefore the current IR version complains that it is not compatible. This rdf should be removed? (AdvCodeAddr ends at $70D, see #5 below)

5. RSL6RSX3 (RS 15-1994 Extender).rdf
"Name = RadioShack 15-1994 Extender w/o Learned" AdvCodeAddr ends at $708, which is different from the rdf supplied in the Extender 3 zip file as noted above, but this rdf is what works with my IR image file (John may recall if this was a typo that was later corrected, or if there is another reason for the difference). Suggest renaming this rdf as " RSL6RSX3 (RS 15-1994 Ex 3).rdf" and changing the Name entry to match.

6. RSL6RSX3 (RS 15-1994 Extender3 with Selective Macro).rdf
The difference from #5 above is that AdvCodeAddr ends at $FF (and the Name entry). However, this rdf is not included with any of the extender versions currently posted in the Files section - is it obsolete?

jon_armstrong · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:08 pm Post subject:

John, unfortunately I wasn’t very scientific about anything. Your answer at least provides a plausible theory. I know that I started out using extender3. BTW, the RDF file that is in the zipped file with the source and 1994ex3.hex is named "RSL6RSX3 (15-1994 extender 3).rdf" and the one that comes with IR3.21b is RSL6RSX3 (RS 15-1994 extender 3).rdf (the RS inside the parenthesis is missing in the former) so if you copy the original file along with the 1994ex3.hex file to the IR directory per the readme, you will have two rdf files for the 1994Ext3, rather than a nag screen forcing you to pick one or the other, if that is significant. I did a fc between the original rdf and Nil’s latest and I probably don’t know enough to see if any of the changes are significant. I am assuming most are to get conformity between RM and IR.

My theory is that I probably opened a 1994 extender file from the diagnosis area and then opened mine and confused IR (sometime in the past) that started the process. As I ran extinstall a number of times, I probably eliminated all 1994 rdf files except for ext3.

I am sure that by the time I attempted to "upgrade" to ext5, I DID only have only the ext5 rdf in the folder where I ran exinstall and it sounds like you need both a "from" and "too" rdf file which could help explain the bizarre results when I tested ext5.

Right now everything is back working. So should I:

1) Do nothing
2) Run tests to advance JP1 extender "science"
3) Try to upgrade/fix per Nil's or other suggestions
4) Take up golf
5) Something else

If I do 1) will it be stable? Let me know what you want if 2) would be useful. I would like any other suggestions for 3) or 5), since someday I may want a different feature. 4) Was looking pretty good yesterday and the weather was nice at least in the morning.

I just saw ot04298's very intersesting notes and perhaps that will help explain, thanks.
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-Jon

Nils_Ekberg · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 6:48 pm Post subject:

With these notes and what I have found I will sort out the RDF's so the distribution carries the correct RDF's. My only concern in eliminating RDF's is that there may still be people using them since there are slight differences between all of them. Depending on what I come up with I can also take advantage of the new [Identification] feature in the RDF's and the soon to be available IR.

Just a side note, I had added a sticky note to the RDF folder at jp1 indicating that people should check for a newer RDF in the distribution before using any in the folder. Even though most extender docs include the same comment I will add the same sticky note to the extender folder.
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Nils
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Diagnosis File Section

Nils_Ekberg · Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:39 am Post subject:

With a little help and review I got all the 15-1994 RDF's sorted out. I even included version 4 which was missing. They are all IR and RM compatable.

I will upload them with the next release of RDF's
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Nils
Files Section
Diagnosis File Section