JP1 Remotes

xaust · Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 32

All the keys I have tested on my remote (URC-6131) will repeat intermittently. These are the keys I have tested:

L, D, P, U, R, A, T, N, Q, S.

The Robman · Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject:

I've just grabbed a sample of learned signals and verified the checksum and break formats, and it's all consistent with what the protocol should be generating, so I don't know what the problem is.

For anyone else that wants to look at some learned signals, Brad stored a bunch of them here:

http://www.gusek.net/jp1/0-9.IR
http://www.gusek.net/jp1/Keys1.IR
http://www.gusek.net/jp1/Keys2.IR
http://www.gusek.net/jp1/Keys3.IR
http://www.gusek.net/jp1/Keys4.IR
http://www.gusek.net/jp1/aqs.IR
http://www.gusek.net/jp1/keys5.IR

Teks, could you verify whether you have a repeating issue with the current upgrade? If you do, could you try learning some buttons, using the short-press method, and then verify if youget the same issue with the learned buttons. If the learned buttons work OK but the upgrade buttons don't (ie, the device keeps repeatign after you've stopped pressing the button), post your learned signals so I can take a peek.
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Teks · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA

I have tried V3 and V4 (not tried V2), and I do get a repeating problem.. but I don't think it is exactly what Xaust reports.

A very quick tap of say button X on my URC-8910 will delivery a single char "X" in notepad.

An average timed button press delivers double letters "XX".

And a slightly slower than average gives me triple letters "XXX".

This seems to apply to all keys.

So the repeating problem for me is based on how quickly I press and release a button. I have yet to get a button to "stick" and just keep repeating characters. Holding a button down on the remote will do this though.

Adjusting keyboard repeat rate in XPs control panel does nothing. Neither remote or keyboard... or so it seems.

The repeat rate in V3 & V4 protocols IMHO is something that would eventually annoy me too much. If it could not be fixed I would instead opt for single keystrokes as in the original protocol. This is what I am currently using with the newly fixed and added keys.

I think this repeat rate problem was also discussed here:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4037
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The Robman · Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject:

That is indeed a different issue than what I was trying to fix. IIUC, when you press one of the upgrade buttons, even after you let it go, it would still keep repeating, meaning the BREAK signal wasn't being received.

I do recall a discussion on the new issue you raise, where the problem seemed to be that there wasn't enough delay between the first repetition and the rest.

My V2 and V3 protocols shouldn't have changed anything over the original upgrade in this regard. The difference between V2 and the original is that V2 calculated the 2nd byte for you. The difference between V3 and V2 is that the 2nd byte is recalculated rather than just tweeked.
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xaust · Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 32

As best as I can tell with repeated testing I am not seeing what Teks is seeing, i.e. slightly longer key presses resulting in 'XX' or 'XXX' (multiple key entries).

I am seeing the problem where a single quick key press will sometimes result in a key getting stuck in "repeat" mode. A subsequent key press will cancel this mode and return to normal. I have even watched closely and see this behavior when it goes bad:

"X a short pause XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX....."

As best as I can tell when I perform this testing with the actual keyboard I am not seeing this problem. If it does happen with the keyboard it is very seldom - no where as common as the remote.

Teks - just curious. Is your ACK-751 receiver the PS2 variety of the USB variety. Mine is PS2.

The Robman · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:

I've created a V4 version of the protocol which is an attempt to address Tek's issue (ie, the quick repeat). This code doesn't address xaust's issue with the keys getting stuck.

I have added a delay between the first send of the data portion of the signal and the subsequent sends. The delay time is adjustable by editing the red data in the protocol where "FF FF" would be the maximum delay and "00 01" would be the minimum.

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 F1 (S3C8+) Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard (PB v3.11)
43 8C 11 8B 16 89 C4 10 05 08 00 F4 01 24 00 EA
01 24 4C 2C 03 8E 01 13 FF FF 04 20 11 08 04 F6
FF 4B 08 C1 F0 C0 02 01 F6 FF 4B 19 05 F6 01 46
F6 01 0A FB 0D C6 F8 EE EE F6 01 58 46 29 01 F6
01 46 B6 04 01 B6 05 10 8D 01 46 2C 08 10 C0 C0
C1 2A FA AF
End

If the maximum delay is still not enough, this next version calls the delay routine twice...

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 F1 (S3C8+) Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard (PB v3.11)
43 8C 11 8B 16 89 C4 10 05 08 00 F4 01 24 00 EA
01 24 4C 2C 03 8E 01 13 FF FF 04 20 11 08 04 F6
FF 52 08 C1 F0 C0 02 01 F6 FF 52 19 05 F6 01 46
F6 01 0A FB 14 C6 F8 EE EE F6 01 58 C6 F8 EE EE
F6 01 58 46 29 01 F6 01 46 B6 04 01 B6 05 10 8D
01 46 2C 08 10 C0 C0 C1 2A FA AF
End

Please keep in mind that I haven't tested this new code at all.

Here's the new PB file...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2419
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xaust · Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 32

Just an FYI - I have two of these remotes (URC-6131). I just programmed the second one and it is behaving identically to the first.

Teks · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA

The Quick Repeat Problem:

V2, V3 and V4 all give me repeating chars for as long as I hold down the remotes button on my URC-8910. Again the "quick repeat" rate is almost to fast to be very useful.

The original Solidtek ACK-571 IR Keyboard_KM.txt does not repeat for me, holding down X button only sends one letter X.

I just tried the new protocol you posted above. So far no luck.. I get nothing at all.. no keys working. Can I just copy and past from this HTML into IR?

Xaust's "repeat mode" problem:

After more testing with v2 v3 v4, I am unable to reproduce Xaust's "repeat mode" problem. As hard as I tried to partially block the ir signal and max out the remotes range it still had no "stickykey" repeating effect.

My receiver is the PS2 type.
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The Robman · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject:

I just looked at the protocol used in the original KM file and I can confirm that it does indeed only send one repetition of the signal, which I assume is not how the original keyboard works. IIUC, when you press and hold a button on the original keyboard, it will delay for a second or so, then it will repeat the signal.
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Teks · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 16 Location: MA

Yes.. The actual keyboard repeats quite well.
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The Robman · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject:

But it waits a second or two before it starts repeating, correct?

When you learned the signals that you posted here, did you use a long hold or a short hold of the keyboard button?

The learns all show just one repeat, so if you used a long hold, the implication is that the keyboard actually stops sending the signal for a moment and then if you keep holding the button, it resumes sending it.

Just for fun, here's something I'd like you try for me. Learn a button using the long hold, but even after the learn is complete, keep holding the keyboard button, and then put a different button into learn mode and capture the rest of the signal. This is just on the off chance that something changes in the signal to indicate that it's a repeat. (I'm not expecting to see a difference, I just want to make sure).
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xaust · Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 32

Maybe this info will help.

I added some timing gathering info to the little app that is running on my machine and watching the keyboard. The timing is identical in all the cases below. The time delay from the first key logged to the second is 0.5 sec. The time delay to all following keys is 0.033 sec.

This timing happens for these four test cases:
1. Press and hold a key on the actual keyboard.
2. Press and hold a key on the remote.
3. Cover the IR emitter on the keyboard. Press and hold a key. After several seconds, while still holding the key down, uncover the IR emitter.
4. Ditto #3 but this time using the remote.

NOTE: #3 and #4 show that the keyboard's IR receiver is doing the smarts to wait 1/2 sec before doing "repeat"!! Presumably the actual keyboard is quite dumb and is just blasting out a continuous stream of keys with some minimal delay and then ending with a BREAK?

The Robman · Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject:

In that case, I wonder if the correct sequence of events is this...

1) Send MAKE
2) Send BREAK
3) Wait 1/2 second
4) Send MAKE continuously until button released
5) Send BREAK
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xaust · Joined: 01 Oct 2005 Posts: 32

Based on my experiment it seems like the receiver has all the smarts. I know that it has a microcontroller inside because I have had it open in the past.

My guess is that the keyboard does this:

1) Send MAKE
2) Send MAKE continuously until button released
3) Send BREAK

I feel that my experiment #3 above corroborates this.

The Robman · Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:36 am Post subject:

I've been doing some catching up as I joined the discussion of this keyboard somewhat late. Jon created a protocol which he posted here that replicates the signal structure that you describe, and the user (Nad) who was testing it said that it caused the buttons to repeat too quickly, which is why Jon started adding a delay between the 1st send and the rest of the repeats.

I've just looked through all of the learned signals that Nad (Brad) posted and the only buttons that show a repeating signal are the arrow buttons. Now, I don't know if this is because those are the only buttons that he chose to hold or because the keyboard doesn't repeat those buttons

Teks, as you have a learning remote, could you do some learning for me please. Pick a particular button and use the same button for all of these tests.

1) Learn a short tap of the button.
2) Learn a long hold of the button.
3) Start pressing the keyboard button before you put the JP1 remote into learn mode and then start learning it (ie, to learn the repeating portion of the signal).

Thanks,
Rob
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