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JP1 vs Harmony
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ledan



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: JP1 vs Harmony Reply with quote

I'm using a OFA 9910. I use JP1 and really like that because I can set it like I want. I'm using it with an extender for fastest macro, DSM, using discreate code or toggle with them. I'm looking at the Harmony remote and would like to have a comparison with JP1....things that I will not be able to do with an Harmony.

Thanks
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19588
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there are too many Harmony users here (if any) so it would be hard for us to do a comparison, plus we tend to be a bit biased.

From what I understand, the appeal of the Harmony is largely because it's supposed to be very easy to set up, plus as it uses an LCD screen for most of the buttons, they are labelled correctly. Also, you can program it from your PC (in fact, I think you have to). So, from that perpective, it can probably do everything that a JP1 remote can do. But, it's not a hard button remote, so you will need to look at the screen alot, which a JP1 user doesn't have to do, and you'll need to start saving for it now, which a JP1 user doesn't have to do.
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Rob
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I bought a harmony 659 before I got into jp1 (8811+cable). I spent over 8hrs trying to get the web-based configuration to work. Then finally gave up. Many like it. It's "activity-based" meaning you hit a button called "watch tv" and it executes commands to set you up with watching tv.

If you like hard buttons, at Robman says, then the OFA or radio shack remotes have the most. if you want pc progammability,you'll have to spend over $150 for a urc solution compared to under $40 for cable+remote (I don't consider the harmony's pc programmable since it's a web based configuration).

I eased into jp1, by buying a 8811+cable with the intent of buying a mx-500 where I'd use the 8811 to learn commands and then teach them to the mx-500. Once I got to playing with the 8811 and jp1, I never bought the mx-500.

Since you're already deep into jp1 (extender, DSM, etc. - you don't say but have you tried the LKP? VERY cool. I use that with the 8811 and couldn't live without it), I think you'd find the harmony's like the 659 cheesy and you'd be forever trying to get it to do what you wanted, IMO.

Best,
jeff
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: JP1 vs Harmony Reply with quote

ledan wrote:
I'm looking at the Harmony remote


Why?

Without knowing the benefit you hope to get from a Harmony, we can't give you any useful advice.

Many people who get or consider getting a Harmony rather than a JP1 remote do so because they believe it is easier to learn to program a Harmony than to learn to program a JP1. They might even be right, but you already have DSMs working in the extender, so we can assume you're well past the task of learning to program JP1.

The Robman wrote:
it can probably do everything that a JP1 remote can do.


Are you saying that because you know more about Harmony programming than I do, or because you're forgetting some of the things people do with JP1 remotes?

Do Harmony remotes have something comperable to ToadTog (I don't know, but I would guess not)?

Can Harmony remotes issue macros as fast as a JP1 remote with an extender (again, I don't know enough about Harmony to say)?
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ledan



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mainly attracted by the design or the curiosity of knowing how they work. Maybe, it could be easier for my girlfriend to have activities.

Have not tried LKP yet. You are using it to do what ?

Thanks for your anwser.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19588
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: JP1 vs Harmony Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
Are you saying that because you know more about Harmony programming than I do, or because you're forgetting some of the things people do with JP1 remotes?

I don't know how much you know about the Harmony, so it's hard for me to answer that, but I fully admit that my knowledge on it is limited.

johnsfine wrote:
Do Harmony remotes have something comperable to ToadTog (I don't know, but I would guess not)?

Absolutely, one of their main selling points is that they remember the state of your devices, and I have to imagine that it's easier to setup than Toadtog. I tried looking at Toadtog once and gave up (due to lack of time to digest it all).

johnsfine wrote:
Can Harmony remotes issue macros as fast as a JP1 remote with an extender (again, I don't know enough about Harmony to say)?

I have no idea about macro speed, but I haven't heard any complaints, so I imagine they can.

Just to make things clear, I'm not trying to sell the Harmony here, I think they're vastly over-priced and I actually have a Harmony remote that I was given that I never use (if that tells you anything), I'm just stating the facts as I understand them. I think for people who have the money to spare and are generally afraid of technology (look how many people still don't know how to program a VCR?), I think the Harmony could be a perfect fit. And while JP1 isn't exactly difficult, if you can't program a VCR, it's probably not for you, in which case open your check book and get a Harmony.
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using LKP as follows, with the extender for the 8811. device keys with just a short press set up the remote buttons to control the device and transport/volume punch through. A long key press (LKP) executes a macro that selects what device to watch (switches display inputs, RCVR inputs, etc.). I don't need toadTog (to keep track of the status of a device. if my rcvr is muted because it didn't get the signal to unmute, I just execute the LKP macro again and it's unmuted. Note thtat I have discrete on/off for all devices except moto 6412 which I just leave on all the time.

jeff
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ledan



Joined: 01 May 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenough1

I have tried LKP today to do something like you have done and I can only say WOW ! ...I sould have tried that before.

Thanks
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent! I knew you'd like it.

jeff
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sfhub



Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 287

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jp1 is like unix
harmony is like mac

LKP effectively doubles the number of hard buttons you have to program with (not really because memory starts running out, but effectively since nobody LKPs every button)

I use it to implement very easy to understand single button all on commands. Press DVD button to select DVD device. Hold DVD button to turn on everything needed to play DVDs and set the proper inputs. Press power to turn off DVD device. Hold Power to turn off all devices in Home Theatre system.

Also stuff like Press Mute to toggle mute, Hold Mute to toggle CC.
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But with OSX, Mac is linux Wink

Best,
jeff

P.S. sfhub, nice to see you over here.
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andyross



Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 225
Location: Schaumburg, IL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One issue with the Harmony is that it REQUIRES an internet connection for programming. All your information is held on the Harmony web site. At any time, they could decide to start charging a monthly fee or some form of subscription to continue programming your remote. They could conceivably even put code in the remote REQUIRING a monthly connection to verify your subscription, or your remote goes dead.
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Capn Trips
Expert


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3959

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh.... the consipracy theorist speaks! Twisted Evil
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READ BEFORE POSTING or your post will be DELETED!


Remotes:Atlas OCAP URC 1056, Harmony One, OFA XSight Touch, AR XSight Touch
TVs: Panasonic TH-50PE700U; LG 65" Smart LED TV; RCVR: Pioneer VSX-D2016S;Onkyo TX-SR875
DVD/VCR: LG Blu-Ray player, Pioneer DV-400VK (multi-region DVD), Sony BDP-S350 (Blu-ray), Toshiba HD-A1 (HD-DVD), Panasonic AG-W1 (Multi-system VCR);
Laserdisc/CD changer: Pioneer CLD-704.
Streaming: Intel NUC PC
(But I still have to get up for my beer)
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19588
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even without a conspiracy, Andy does raise a good point about the Harmony being dependant on the company staying solvent in order to keep the web site going.

Sounds like a good hacking opportunity though! Maybe if someone were to build some sort of interface that sits between the web site and the remote to monitor all the communications that go back and forth, they could then create their own web site or application that you could use to update the Harmony, which would give it life after the company dies.
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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greenough1



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the website configuration was a major problem when I tested a 659. I could not get it to work with my isp. I tried everything and had my LAN wide open to the world (for only a relatively short time) and could not get it to work. When it did work, it was extraordinarily frustrating still because the configuration wizard was really brain dead. the configuration process was essentially a one-way process with no obvious/easy to back up and try again. You had to complete the first pass at all costs...

Just my opinion. I do agree strongly with Rob, that this was a huge deal breaker with harmony for me.

Best,
jeff
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