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Sapphire Theatrix (or Cyberlink) Remote for Windows MCE
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majorcis



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:01 am    Post subject: Sapphire Theatrix (or Cyberlink) Remote for Windows MCE Reply with quote

1. Device: Sapphire Theatrix (or Cyberlink) remote with USB receiver
2. Type of device: Controls PCTV card and Windows Media Center Edition
3. JP1 Remote model: Radio Shack 15-2116
4. JP1 user? Yes
5. Still have original remote? Yes
6. Checked the file section? Yes
7. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes
8. Partially working setup code? No
9. Learning remote question? I can learn codes from the original remote but would like to convert them to an upgrade file. I only get raw data from the learned signals in the IR program and my 15-2116 fills up after only 16 learned buttons. What information do I need and/or what is the next step?

Here is a link to the learned codes.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=2158


Last edited by majorcis on Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 17505
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a 4-burst protocol with toggle bits in the middle and at the end of the stream. The last 3 2-bit pairs seem to be dropped on the final stream. I haven't checked to see if there's a checksum in there somewhere (possibly those last 3 pairs).

Here's the techie data, maybe someone will create a new exec for this ...

freq = 37.735
leadin: +1378 -438
leadout: +476 -63816

0 burst: +476 -440
1 burst: +476 -668
2 burst: +476 -894
3 burst: +476 -1114

Code:

LI: 21000000000010113331 LO (sent once)
LI: 21000100000010113330 LO (repeating)
LI: 21000200000010113    LO (completion)

LI: 21000000000033011210 LO
LI: 21000100000033011211 LO
LI: 21000200000033011    LO

LI: 21000000000000113330 LO
LI: 21000100000000113331 LO
LI: 21000200000000113    LO

LI: 21000000000002202133 LO
LI: 21000100000002202132 LO
LI: 21000200000002202    LO

LI: 21000000000022030022 LO
LI: 21000100000022030023 LO
LI: 21000200000022030    LO

LI: 21000000000000331332 LO
LI: 21000100000000331333 LO
LI: 21000200000000331    LO

LI: 21000000000002030020 LO
LI: 21000100000002030021 LO
LI: 21000200000002030    LO

LI: 21000000000012030021 LO
LI: 21000100000012030020 LO
LI: 21000200000012030    LO

LI: 21000000000031033010 LO
LI: 21000100000031033011 LO
LI: 21000200000031033    LO

LI: 21000000000031132100 LO
LI: 21000100000031132101 LO
LI: 21000200000031132    LO

LI: 21000000000020113332 LO
LI: 21000100000020113333 LO
LI: 21000200000020113    LO

LI: 21000000000030133111 LO
LI: 21000100000030133110 LO
LI: 21000200000030133    LO

LI: 21000000000020133110 LO
LI: 21000100000020133111 LO
LI: 21000200000020133    LO

LI: 21000000000021132101 LO
LI: 21000100000021132100 LO
LI: 21000200000021132    LO

LI: 21000000000023100210 LO
LI: 21000100000023100211 LO
LI: 21000200000023100    LO

LI: 21000000000033100211 LO
LI: 21000100000033100210 LO
LI: 21000200000033100    LO

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Last edited by The Robman on Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:48 pm; edited 3 times in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to re-learn the LAST, GUIDE, CH- and RECORD buttons, as the learns seem to be incomplete.
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majorcis



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I re-learned the codes and updated the file. Thanks for your help.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4767
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
This is a 4-burst protocol with toggle bits in the middle and at the end of the stream.

...
The Robman wrote:
I haven't checked to see if there's a checksum in there somewhere (possibly those last 3 pairs).


I don't have time to do serious work on this one any time soon. But keep us posted with what you figure out, so I can add this to DecodeIr.

I don't intend to insult by stating the obvious, but there must be a checksum. No protocol designer puts toggle bits in the middle and at the end. So the real toggle bit is in the middle and the thing at the end that looks like a second toggle bit is part of a checksum and that checksum covers the toggle bit so it changes as the toggle bit changes.


Last edited by johnsfine on Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I updated the list in my last post to reflect the new learns.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
I hope this isn't insultingly obvious, but there must be a checksum. No protocol designer puts toggle bits in the middle and at the end. So the real toggle bit is in the middle and the thing at the end that looks like a second toggle bit is part of a checksum and that checksum covers the toggle bit so it changes as the toggle bit changes.

I hope and expect you'll have no trouble deducing the checksum rule. But if you do, please post the decoded binary for the signals and I'll likely spot the rule.

I totally expect that there is a checksum, and that it is the reason that there appears to be 2 toggles, but I'm not really planning to dig into this one any time soon. My goal in posting the info that I did was to give someone else a head-start if they wanted to play with it.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile, I really wonder about the end frame being a simple truncation of the repeat frame. Is that real or is it an annomoly of the UEI learning algorythm?

Marjorcis, how consistent were you about the button duration on the original remote when learning these?

If you followed the normal recommended learning method (hold the original remote button until you get a double blink from the UEI remote) it would be impossible to learn a release frame because the learning would be done before the release frame starts. (It is possible, but unlikely that the final frame isn't a release frame but still is as it appears different from the repeat frame).

Please get some samples varying the learn method so we can deduce whether that final frame is real by seeing how it varies across learning methods:

1) Hold the original remote button through the success blink of the JP1 remote.

2) Press the original button as short as possible. (So the repeat should occur too few times to be deduced as a repeat).

3) Press and hold the original remote button inmmediately before pressing the JP1 remote button that it learns onto, rather than using correct sequence. (So the JP1 remote should start learning in the middle of the correct signal and miss the start). Try to release the original remote button right after the JP1 remote starts learning. That may be tricky timing, but if you get it would give us a reliable view of the end of the signal.

In these situations and even more so in the similar situations that come up a lot at RC, I really wish more people had better IR capture devices, such as that simple one we're discussing at
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=34140&highlight=#34140
Despite all its glitches that we're discussing there, it gives a much more trustworthy and complete view of a signal than we get from downloading the learning results of any learning remote.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were the 1 and 2 buttons learned from the corresponding numeric buttons on the OEM remote? If so, could you learn the rest of the numbers please.
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majorcis



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I updated the file to include Long, Short, EndSignal, and Numbers as requested. The Numbers were learned using the Long Press method. The codes in the original file were learned by holding down the button on the original remote until the learning LCD displayed "success".
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good job, especially on capturing those end signals, which I expect needed some careful timing.

Both the results of the short press and the results of the end press clearly demonstrate that this protocol does have a release frame, but it is NOT the release frame captured by the ordinary learns.

The strange release frame Rob correctly described from the first file must be a glitch in the learning algorythm. The actual release frame is exactly what you would expect if you extrapolated from the start frame and repeat frame and expected a release frame.

When someone gets around to writing the protocol executor, they may prefer to include the correct release frame just for correctness, even though most protocols that have release frames don't really need them. But it would be nice to know how much the device depends on the release frame for correct operation.

All the first set of learns you did and the longpress set lack correct release frames. If the device depends on correct release frames you should see symptoms when trying to control the device using those learned signals. Do you get any problems in trying to use those learned signals?
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majorcis



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
Do you get any problems in trying to use those learned signals?



Every button works fine using the "long press" signals.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, the numeric buttons confirm that this is an LSB protocol, which you need to keep in mind when converting the base-4 numbers to binary.

In other words...

0 = 00
1 = 10
2 = 01
3 = 11

The last 8 bits are the checksum and the previous 8 bits are the OBC.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I've cracked the checksum for this. See this spreadsheet for complete details, but here's the summary...

bit / formula
7 = 5,4
6 = ~4,2
5 = ~3,1
4 = ~2,0
3 = ~5,3,1
2 = ~4,2,0
1 = ~7,5,1,#1
0 = 6,4,0,#0

(#1 and #0 are bits from the 2-bit toggle from earlier in the data stream).

So, to write an exec for this, you'd have to first calculate the checksum and then you'd have to format to 4-burst signal.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Majorcis,
I have an upgrade for you to try, it's pretty long so I hope you have room for it. It contains all the buttons that you have posted learned signals for.

Upgrade Code 0 = 8F D0 (Video Acc/2000) Sapphire Theatrix (KM v8.31)
FF 00 A6 3E 5F 06 27 1E 1F 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
C8 C9 CA 28 52 51 50 4F F0 D6 D2 D3 C7 D7
End

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 FF (S3C8+) Sapphire Theatrix (PB v3.11)
44 8C 11 8B 0B 7E 02 B1 00 C6 00 EE 00 58 00 65
5C 7E 18 04 37 16 03 B6 C5 A1 37 14 03 B6 C5 50
E0 C1 E0 C1 B2 51 18 04 56 C1 F0 B2 51 F0 C1 77
10 B2 51 E4 03 07 59 03 F6 FF 53 E6 06 04 B6 03
40 F6 FF 53 F6 01 0A 7B F8 E6 06 08 B6 03 C0 F6
FF 53 AF 1C 12 F6 01 4C 6C 05 87 36 02 5C 04 1C
16 F6 01 4C B8 C3 56 CB 03 BE 1C 1A F6 01 6D BA
F9 E0 C3 E0 C3 5A E8 6A E1 1C 16 F6 01 4C C6 F8
7B D4 F6 01 58 AF
End
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