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varaonaid
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 99
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 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject: discrete codes, phantom buttons, I'm lost |
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Hi Guys,
I've been reading through JP1 for Beginners to walk me through upgrading my remote. I've done a tiny bit of this before but it's been awhile and feels like I'm starting from scratch again.
I'm currently trying to upgrade my TV code to the "AKAI Samsung rear Projection" code I found at the yahoo JP1 group. It includes some discrete codes. This sounds great but I have no idea what that means (I did google to try to find it out). Could anyone please explain what this means? Also, in the list of available buttons for my remote (after loading up this code in KM) it shows that there are 5 "phantom" buttons (with the @ in front - bound right?) as well as "@ discrete On" and "@ discrete Off". What does this mean and how do I use/access them?
Sorry for the newbie questions but I really look forward to any advice you can give! Thanks in advance!
Rachel |
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Capn Trips
Expert
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: discrete codes, phantom buttons, I'm lost |
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| varaonaid wrote: | | ... discrete codes. ...Could anyone please explain what this means? |
Discrete functions are sort of the opposite of toggle functions. The two manifestations of this of which I am aware are for "Power" (on ANY equipment) or "Input/Output Select" (usually on a piece of A/V gear that has multiple inputs or outputs, like a TV or Amplifier/Receiver (some VCRs may have such selections, and A/V switchers, as well, of course). There may be other examples.
A regular "Power" function's end state depends on the beginning state, i.e. will switch it On if it's Off, or Off, if it's On. This is a toggle function.
A "discrete" function is one which ALWAYS provides the same end result, e.g. "Power On" or "Discrete On" will always end up with the piece of equipment powered on, regardless of initial state.
Second example, TV video input. A typical "TV/Video" function is a toggle, i.e. it will cycle through a series of video inputs in some order (tuner->Video 1->video 2->video 3->tuner again), so that sending the signal may result in any of SEVERAL ultimate video input selctions (the end state depends on the starting state).
While discrete input selection results in the SAME end state regardless of the starting state. e.g. if you send a "Video 2" signal, it will always place the piece of gear into "Video 2" mode, regardless whether it was in Tuner, Video 2 or any other mode beforehand.
In general, if you use macros to set up your system, discrete power and input selections are very handy. Some equipment responds to discrete function commands even though the OEM remote doesn't have these functions on it. So one of the subset "missions" of the JP1 (and other RC) groups is identification and sharing of discrete functions for various equipment wherever/whenever they are identified.
| varaonaid wrote: | | ... there are 5 "phantom" buttons (with the @ in front - bound right?) as well as "@ discrete On" and "@ discrete Off". What does this mean and how do I use/access them? |
An expert can better explain these, but "Phantom" buttons in KM/RM are precisely that. The remote in question is capable of hadling more "buttons" than physically exist on the particular remote. Our team of experts, when they build the RDF's for each remote, identify how many such "Phantom" buttons there are, and label them in the RDF and make them available for use in RM and KM. Obviously, these are not buttons that you can press on your remote, BUT they are locations in which you can store functions in a device upgrade, or assign advanced codes to via keymoves (or macros, or special protocol functions). You can then use these phantoms in any macro you build in IR. "Discrete on" and "discrete off" are simply "Phantoms" like other phantom buttons given special names, since they are some of the most frequently used functions that folks need to assign, and there is no natural button on any JP1 remote for "On" or "Off".
The @ preceding a button name in KM indicates that any function assigned to the button will NOT be part of the device upgrade as such, but will be created as a Keymove. When you copy and paste such an upgrade into IR, you will notice that any function that you assigned to a button preceded by an @ (or to any "shifted" or "x-shifted" button) will appear in the KeyMove tab of IR. It's stored in a different section of the EEPROM memory and usually takes a little more space than one that's part of the actual Keymap for the Device selected for your upgrade.
Which buttons have an @ in front of them depends on the remote and the Device type you select for the upgrade. For example, a "TV" device will make any function you assign to "Play" Pause" or "record" to be created as a keymove, whereas if you simply change the device type of the upgrade to "CBL", these buttons will be included in the actual upgrade. |
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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varaonaid
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Capn Trips, thanks a bunch for the reply. It was exactly what I needed (and in language I can understand!). I really appreciate it. My head was starting to swim trying to understand how all of this works.
Rob, thanks for the link - I'll read through the posts there.
I'm so happy to know about discrete codes - I was getting depressed thinking there would never be any way to program macros with our a/v setup cycling through multiple inputs with a single button/command. Now I'll be studying up on macros!
Thanks again.
Rachel |
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Capn Trips
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 3990
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| varaonaid wrote: | | ... I was getting depressed thinking there would never be any way to program macros with our a/v setup cycling through multiple inputs with a single button/command. |
Well, don't break out the champagne just yet. There is still no guarantee that (1) your equipment will respond to discrete codes, (2) if it does, that those codes are known (which would give you an opportunity to search for them and provide them BACK to the users of this forum).
If there are no discrete codes for any particular function you seek, there are several workarounds in existence, but it's too early to clutter your mind with "Power On" or "Off" macros (e.g. "Play", "Stop" for "On" and "Play","Power" for "Off" - on certain DVD players), or "Video Select" macros (e.g. "Channel +", "TV/Video", "TV/Video" to select "Video 2") or the ToadTog special protocol that can be used to create "virtual" discrete functions. |
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varaonaid
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for that info - it helps "bring me back to reality"!
Fortunately, the JP1 TV code I found seems to include several discrete codes (which is why I began asking about them in the first place). However, I'm currently working on the codes for my LiteOn 5005 DVD recorder and am seeking discrete codes, work arounds or whatever at least for power on/off.
Any ideas on this or should I post a new topic to ask? |
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The Robman
Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 21238
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: |
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It's best to keep threads on different devices seperate.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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