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Possible to invoke learning with a custom protocol?

 
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Dabbith



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 55
Location: Anonia, CT

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:35 pm    Post subject: Possible to invoke learning with a custom protocol? Reply with quote

I have a Kenwood receiver, a notorious TOAD. The thing that bothered me until recently was that the original remote has discrete on and discrete off. I finally realized that since the remote has 2-way IR, it first sends a "give me your status" command to the receiver, if it gets a response it knows the device is on, otherwise it knows that it is off and can react accordingly.

What I am wondering is how hard would it be to detect the signal from the receiver in a custom protocol? I don't need to store the response or decode it. I was wondering if there was a way to just detect that IR was seen by the remote, and assume that it was from the receiver. I'm not sure if this would be fooled by the random IR that's always about.

Any ideas?

Thanks
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's fairly hard to research how to just detect IR. Probably not hard to do it once researched.

I think it would be much harder to cut down on the errors from random IR. My (wild) guess is that the protocol would be fooled more often than not if it just detected IR. I think it would take a lot of experimentation to find out what the incomming signal is supposed to look like to the learning logic (remember it's at a longer range than that at which the learning logic is normally used, which might kill the idea entirely). Once known I think it would take a lot of tricky coding to cram the discrimination logic into the size of a custom protocol.

Bottom line: Too hard.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18402
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A more practical idea would probably be to use John's ToadTog protocol. The main drawback of ToadTog is that it requires you to keep the device and the remote in sync, so only you can decide how practical that is in your household. In other words, how often does your wife or kids turn the receiver off by hand rather than using the remote?
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Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
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jon_armstrong
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea how the Kenwood protocol actually works but the few two way protocols that I have seen (mainly RS-232) still have unique On and Off commands.

Can you learn any commands from the OEM remote. Does it respond to any built in setup codes on your OFA remote?
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Dabbith



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 55
Location: Anonia, CT

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,

I'm currently using toadtog and it works great most of the time, well over 95% in fact. It helps that the receiver is behind a glass door and we're usually too lazy to open it, easier to just grap the remote. This device just bothers me because I bought it before I had JP1 and it makes me want to replace it.

John,

Thanks, that's pretty much what I figured. I just thought I'd ask in case someone knew how to do it. I wasn't worried about space, it would go into my 8k 6011. I actually tried a bit of learning from where I usually sit and actually got the same decode nearly every time which doesn't match the real signal learned up close, but I was supirsed that I got the same thing at all. I was even able to trick the OEM remote into not turning on the receiver by playing back the learned code at the right time. My guess was that overall it would be too hard, but I had to ask.

Jon,

Most Kenwood receivers use setup codes 313 and 314. It uses simple NEC1 device 184 and my receiver responds to subdevices 0-4 for various functions. I just posted my config because I haven't seen the Room B functions listed before. It's under auto and called "Kenwood - With Room B Functions.txt"

Thanks for all the great replies!
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