JP1 Remotes

[wbrells]

Folks,

I'm trying to install an upgrade to support my Panasonic SC-HT810V "Home Theater" system. It appeared that "Panasonic HT700.txt" should provide a good starting point. However, that upgrade doesn't seem to work on my system, perhaps because I don't understand how the "Sub Device" entries (under RM's 'Function' tab) are "combined" with the "Main Device" value entered under the RM's 'Setup' tab.

SPECIFICALLY, the "Panasonic HT700.txt" file specifies a "Main Device" of 160, and "Sub Device" values of 28, 0, 34, 80, and 18 are being used for different functions. By using the Leaning function on my 8810 remote I've discovered that the Power button on the original remote uses a Device code of 144 (sub-code of 0) while the Volume+/Volume- buttons use a Device code of 160 (sub-code 0).

QUESTION: Assuming that I leave the "Main Device" code at 160 in RM, what value should I use in the "Sub Device" column to get, for example, the needed 144 Device code? (Currently, "Panasonic HT700.txt" specifies a "Sub Device" value of 28 for the Power button!)

The "Panasonic HT700.txt" file includes a Panasonic combo protocol which I did upload to my remote...

I'm relatively new to the JP1 world, so my problem may have been discussed many times before, but so far I've haven't been able to find an appropriate reference!

Many thanks,

Wayne

[johnsfine]

I haven't looked at any files yet (to see what Panasonic HT700.txt is or to see if anything else might be closer). But no Panasonic combo can cover quite that much and using the full device combiner for it would be fairly messy.

The Panasonic combo protocols that support a full range of subdevice numbers are limited to one device number.

The Panasonic combo protocol that allows complex combinations only allows four different subdevice numbers when you have two device numbers. That is still probably the best choice for your device.

That one is in RemoteMaster twice with slightly different UI (but producing identical upgrades). "Panasonic Mixed Combo" is the version I put into RemoteMaster and "Panasonic Mix Combo" is a slightly limited version of that meant to look more like KM's version of the same thing.

If you use that you'll need to set aside one of your five subdevice numbers. Any commands you need to set aside (however you do the main setup code) can be added back as external functions using a simpler helper setup code. There might be a built-in code you could use for helper, or you could create a dummy (no buttons) upgrade for the helper.

[johnsfine]

Are you sure you want one device mode for this whole device?

If there isn't a lot of overlap between the DVD signals and the VCR signals, you probably want a different upgrade and device mode for VCR than for DVD. That may reduce the set of functions you want in each upgrade to the level at which one of the Panasonic combo protocols does cover it.

I checked your other posts to discover that you're using an 8810w, so you have plenty of device modes and you have the ability to use the extender in order to have dynamic HT support in the remote and to have lots of room for KeyMoves.

You described a VCR signal (device 144) as the power key for the whole device and Audio signals (device 160) as the Vol signals for the whole device. I assume there are also some DVD (device 176) signals in there.

If the VCR signals are pretty much limited to device 144 but the Panasonic audio vol signals are needed during VCR use (as opposed to using TV vol signals) you could use the extender's dynamic HT to manage that rather than needing KeyMoves or a complex combo to get the device 160 signals into VCR mode.

[wbrells]

Folks,

Thanks for the many comments! After more investigation, though, it seems that the HT700 upgrade file that I mentioned above is probably NOT a good starting point for my SC-HT810V system. The HT700 system appears to use a single Device Type of 160 with various sub-device codes, while my HT810 seems to use different DEVICE types (160, 144, etc.) with sub-device codes of 0 . (I haven't "learned" all of the functions on the original remote, but so far this appears to be the case.)

Assuming that various DEVICE types are required, it appears (based on your comments) that I should really use a different device selector button on my 8810 remote (e.g. VCR, DVD, CD, RCVR) for EACH of the DEVICE types required by the HT810. Does that seem like a reasonable approach? If I DO use this approach, is the normal (non-combo) Panasonic protocol appropriate? (This is the protocol listed when I "learn" functions from the original remote.)

Thanks again,

Wayne

[johnsfine]

1) You should decide how many device modes to split this into based primarily on how YOU want to use it, and secondarily on how the IR signals vary by mode in the original device. Don't make that decision based on the device numbers in the signals nor on what some Panasonic combo protocol does or doesn't let you combine.

2) You CAN impliment this device entirely with the non-combo Panasonic protocol, regardless of what device modes you divide into (or not). Using the external functions tab of RM you can systematically define any signals that don't fit the device/subdevice of the main upgrade and RM will automatically create the required KeyMoves. That MIGHT create the need to use the extender (which I'd recommend anyway) in order to have room for that many KeyMoves.

3) You now seem to be saying you don't have five different subdevice numbers. In that case the Panasonic Mixture protocol might make this upgrade simpler to construct and easier to understand than using external functions. You haven't told us enough to determine wherther or not that's the best approach.

4) You probably need to go through the tedious step of learning, decoding and recording a LOT of IR signals in order to get enough information to decide how to approach this device.

I'm sure the device itself keeps internal track of whether it is acting as a DVD, a VCR or a CD. But I expect the original remote also keeps track of that. You need to investigate that and be careful of it when learning signals. For example:

I assume the original remote has one PLAY button that can play a DVD, VHS tape, or CD. Some combo devices have one IR signal for PLAY that is sent whenever you press the PLAY button, and the device (only) knows which media that should play. Most combo devices have multiple PLAY signals that can be sent by the one PLAY button. If the remote is in DVD mode it sends a DVD PLAY signal, in VCR mode it sends a VCR play signal, etc.

To be totally organised about this you'd need a table giving every mode in which the original remote is used, listing every button that is meaningful in that mode and giving the IR signal that button sends in that mode.

If you post that table, that would really help the next person who tries to support that device, AND it would let us give you much more specific advice about how to use RM and IR to get good support for it in your 8810.

[wbrells]

I will try to "learn" (not all at one time, of course) all the functions of the original remote. Per the last comment, I'll be sure to "learn" each original button in all mode (e.g. the "Play" button in both VCR and DVD modes).

All this "leaning" will take some time, but I will post the results when I have obtained as much data as possible.

Thanks,

Wayne

P.S. So far, it appears that the HT810 does NOT USE SUB-DEVICE codes. Rather different main Device Codes seem to be used for each internal "component" (e.g. Tuner, DVD player). Hopefully, all the "learning" mentioned above should clarify the real situation...

[ElizabethD]

Nothing short of learning all the functions is 100% proof, so do follow John's suggestion to the letter.
But you might begin by learning and annotating, in the notes section, just several key buttons up front. This might give the experts an early idea what's needed (if anything; I suspect Rob's HT-combo for everything but the VCR).

I'd suggest (and wil likely be overruled), just for starters, you learn from your OEM remote:
1. In Receiver/Tuner mode: power, vol+, ch+, number 1, and several sound control commands (SFC, Surround, Subwoofer, Balance, DTS, neo:6, Prologic whatever designations make sense)
2. In DVD/CD mode: power, menu, number 2, top menu, ch+, play, next track, stop, open/close, subtitles
3. In VCR mode: power, menu, number 3, ch+, play ,fast forward, stop, open/close, tape position
Post the IR file (see how to in the Stickies) and/or report back all the devices/subdevices that you see and the experts will do their customary miracles

You mentioned main devices 160(receiver section) and 144(VCR). There may well be, as John suggested, 176(DVD). But there might not. DVD might be bundled under 160, sub 28 or 34 for instance). I have a bit of a problem believing that under 160 there are no subdevices other than zero, but everything is possible
SC-HT900 box uses 7 subdevices. Oh, and in this jungle you may well find power on 160, sub 0,4,8,18,28... believe me, the fun is only beginning

[wbrells]

Hi folks, I'm back again!

I've "learned" ALL the commands generated by my original remote in the various possible modes (DVD, VCR, TUNER). I have all the information in an OpenOffice spreadsheet & have saved it in the native SXC format as well as in the Excel XLS form. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW/WHERE I CAN POST THIS FILE IN THE JP1 FORUM?

Looking at my results, it appears that 3 Device codes are involved:

Device 144 - VCR related functions + Power +Sleep
Device 160 - Tuner related functions + Volume
Device 176 - DVD/CD related functions

I imagine, then, that I will need to utilize 3 device buttons on the 8810 remote (e.g. VCR, RCVR, DVD) and use the appropriate keymoves(?) and or punch-throughs(?) to relate some keys for the different devices... (I'm quite a JP1 novice, so I need to study some of the documentation in more detail before I really get a feel for what can be done in this case!)

Any comments would, as always, be greatly appreciated (particularly after some of you are - hopefully - able to take a look at the data which I hope can be posted later today.)

Wayne

[gfb107]

Post your files in the Diagnosis Area of the File Section of the forums.
_________________
-- Greg
Original RemoteMaster developer
JP1 How-To's and Software Tools
The #1 Code Search FAQ and it's answer (PLEASE READ FIRST)

[The Robman]

I imagine that the buttons that use device code 144 all use sub-device code 0 or 1. I imagine that all the 176 buttons use sub-device code 0, which just leaves the 160 buttons, which could use a variety of sub-device codes.

If it is your desire to include all these functions into one upgrade (which is not how I would necessarily recommend you do it), you might be able to use the "Panasonic MIX Combo" protocol. This allows you to combine up to 6 device and sub-device codes, so you could combine device codes 144, 160 and 176, plus sub-device codes 0, 1 and one of the sub-device codes used with the 160 device code.

You can also combine as many different combinations as you need with the device combiner.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[wbrells]

The spreadsheet is now in the "Diagnosis" area under the name Panasonic_HT810_Commands.zip.

I'll be doing some more reading so I can (hopefully) appreciate the last set of comments a bit better. Right now, though, I don't really see any reason to combine everything into one upgrade. It would seem (from my rather limited understanding of JP1) that 3 separate upgrades would be a lot easier to manage...

FYI, Here are the Sub-device codes used with each Device:

Device 144: Sub-devices 0, 1, 5
Device 160: Sub-devices 0, 16, 18, 28
Devide 176: Sub-device 0

Thanks, Wayne

[ElizabethD]

I'm interested in learning what several functions mean.
If/when you have a spare moment, while your manual is still open, could you just jot down few words about these? Thanks in advance.

Audio section
PL 160.0:180 prologic?
CSM 160.18:167 what is it?
S.position 160.18:242 sound? speaker? timin?
Ch select 160.0:187 what does this do?
Do the heavy 4-direction triangles mean arrows keys?
What do they do in receiver mode?

DVD section
OP/CL/EJ 176.0:1 open/close/eject?

VCR section, I see 2 new(for me) functions on sub5 here
Osd/Display 144.1:95
Picture mode 144.5:41 what is it?
Navi 144.5:40 what does it do? VCR menu?

[johnsfine]

What is 144.1:8 (SLEEP) in Audio mode?

It certainly looks like three upgrades (by device number) would be simplest. You could use the ordinary Pansonic protocol for 176 and the simple combo (that varies subdevice number) for the other two. Then use external functions to define the few commands needed by each upgrade from other device numbers.

As mentioned earlier, getting the vol commands into the the vcr and dvd modes may be cleaner using VPT or the extender's dynamic HT, rather than as external functions. But external functions would also work.

It looks like you'll need to put a lot of thought into which functions you'd like on which buttons.

If you want to look for them, I suspect you'll find a few more useful functions from other models of DVD, VCR and tuner that will work you're device even though they're not on the original remote (so you'l have an even harder time picking buttons).

[The Robman]

It's also worth thinking about using the "Panasonic MIX Combo" protocol here too.

For example, using the posted spreadsheet as a guide...

1) in AUDIO mode you need to combine 2 device codes (144 and 160) with 4 sub-device codes (0,1,16 and 18)

2) in VCR mode you need to combine 2 device codes (144 and 160) with 3 sub-device codes (0,1 and 5)

3) in DVD mode you need to combine 2 device codes (144 and 176) with 1 sub-device code (0)

4) in TUNER mode you need to combine 2 device codes (144 and 160) with 2 sub-device codes (0 and 28)
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[wbrells]

At the bottom of this message I've documented the "new" functions mentioned above.

So far, I've built an upgrade for the TUNER section of my system (device 160 w/sub-codes). I'm using Setup Code 1518 with the "Panasonic Combo" protocol. It seems to work fine, so I'll try setting up the VCR section next (Setup Code 1519, perhaps?)

DUMB QUESTIONS: I gather that a 'combo' protocol is required in any case when more than one sub-code is involved. Is that the case? In the case of Device 176, there are no sub-codes so I guess (per a comment above) I could use the non-combo "Panasonic" protocol. Could the "Panasonic Combo" also be used in this case, even if it is not essential?

=====================================

Here are some answers to the above questions:

--------------------------
Audio section
PL 160.0:180 prologic?
--------------------------

Turn on Dolby Pro Logic playback

--------------------------
CSM 160.18:167 what is it?
--------------------------

Stands for "Custom Sound Memory". Stores the sound settings (Dolby Pro Logic, Subwoofer level, Center Focus, Sound Field Control, Super Surround) for a disc so the unit recalls them the next time you play it. Will remember up to 30 discs. Use:

1. Make the settings
2. Press and hold [SHIFT] + [C.S.M]

--------------------------
S.position 160.18:242 sound? speaker? timin?
--------------------------

Seat position. Using this function makes you feel like you are sitting in the ideal seating postion (in the center of the circle formed by the speakers), even if you cannot due to the layout of your room. Usage:

1. Press [SHIFT] + [S.POSITION]
2. Press [SHIFT] + [S.POSITION] repeatedly to select a position

--------------------------
Ch select 160.0:187 what does this do?
--------------------------

Down-mix Dolby Digital or DTS (multiple-channel) signals to 2 channels.

--------------------------
Do the heavy 4-direction triangles mean arrows keys?
What do they do in receiver mode?
--------------------------

Yes. In my documentation I tried to duplicate the the symbols on the original remote control unit. In tuner mode, the up & down arrow keys select the next higher (lower) AM or FM preset channel. (The >> and << keys are used for manual tuning). I don't believe the right and left arrow keys do anything in tumer mode.

--------------------------
DVD section

OP/CL/EJ 176.0:1 open/close/eject?
--------------------------

Yes.

--------------------------
VCR section, I see 2 new(for me) functions on sub5 here

Osd/Display 144.1:95
--------------------------

On-screen display. When ON, messages appear on the television for about 5 seconds after you perform operations. If OFF, messages do not appear. (The messages include such things as channel setting, Stereo status, tape running time, etc.)

--------------------------
Picture mode 144.5:41 what is it?
--------------------------

Sets picture mode to:
STANDARD (for recording of TV programs),
DYNAMIC (clear, vivid pictures for scenery and sports),
SOFT (for prerecorded tapes)

--------------------------
Navi 144.5:40 what does it do? VCR menu?
--------------------------

Press [NAVI] to show the "JET NAVIGATOR" screen which will (it seems - I've never used it) display a list of different TV programs (date, time, channel, and type) that have been recorded on a given tape. You can then, I gather, select the program to watch.

--------------------------
What is 144.1:8 (SLEEP) in Audio mode?
--------------------------

The SLEEP timer will turn off the system (in any mode) after a selected length of time (30, 60, 90, 120 minutes).

Wayne