JP1 Remotes

JasonLO · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

I'm trying to identify a few protocols and need help doing so. The DecodeIR.DLL was not able to identify them. I used the "Protocols in IRP format" spreadsheet to try to match these up to existing UEI protocols but was unsuccessful. (If there is another good resource listing what the protocol formats are in a nice XLS like that, please let me know about it.)

If you can identify any of these protocols, either by name or by the UEI code, please help. Also, if you think you can decrypt them but don't understand the format I've listed below, let me know and I'll post the on/off times instead. Here are the protocols:

Protocol A:
Frequency is 40,000.
Time base is 800.
0 = (+1,-3)
1 = (+1,-7)
f:5,~f:5 [+1, -60]
PWM
Used by GE, Panasonic, RCA/Proscan devices
Some OBC codes are CH1:0, CH2:26, CH3:10, CH4:18, CH5:2

Protocol B:
Frequency is 38095.
Time base 262
0=(+1,-3)
1=(+1,-7)
d:3, f:7 [-10278]
PWM
Used by JVC, NEC, and Mitsubishi VCRs.
Some OBC codes are Power = 11, Channel 1 = 80, Channel 2 = 81.

Protocol C:
frequency: 40000.
Time base is 500.
0=(+1,-5)
1=(+3, -3)
[-4674] d:4, f:6 [-4674] d:4, f:6 [-10804]
Used by RCA/Proscan TV
Some OBC codes are Power=38, Channel 1 = 49, Channel 2 = 41.

Protocol D:
frequency: 32921
Time base 300.
0=(+1, -3)
1=(+1, -7)
d:3, f:7 [-12222]
Used by mitsubishi VCR.
Some OBC codes are Power = 19, Channel 1 = 9, Channel 2 = 16.

Thanks for any help.

Jason

The Robman · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:31 am Post subject:

If you have learned these using a JP1 remote, could you post the IR file as that will let us see the actual signal without having to reconstruct the signals from the data you posted. Furthermore, if a tweek is needed to DecodeIR, it would give John something to test it against.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

JasonLO · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

Sorry, I thought that format would be easier to work with as it abstracted the information. I don't have the original IR files with me today, but I'll bring them in tomorrow and upload them. I assume you mean upload them to the JP1 yahoo group.

The Robman · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:57 pm Post subject:

Actually, you can put them in the new Diagnosis Area (click on File Section at the top of this page) then post a link to the file(s).

The info you posted is good, but most of the experts here are quite used to looking at learned signals in IR and that's what we're used to.

Also, like I said, if John determines that he needs to make a change to DecodeIR so that it recognises these protocols, he'll need some way of testing it, which is where the IR file comes into play.

Also, if one of us wants to actually re-generate the signals in question and learn them using some other device (like a Pronto or Tommy Tyler's new learning device) having the IR file means we can just load it into another remote and use it.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

jon_armstrong · Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject:

Jason,

A spot check says they aren't in the decoder. If you are trying to create those Protocols, all could be done in PB or close enough to work. Although I understand that they are built in to certain remotes. You seem to understand the way IR protocols work so that would be very easy for you. Just a couple of comments:

JasonLO · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

Actually after looking at it a second time, I realized I messed up while doing some of the interpretations. In protocol C, there was an attention signal of length 4674, followed by a delay of 1578 before the bit transmission began. It should have been [+4674 -1578] d:4, f:6 [+524 -10804]. That's what I get for hacking at midnight Embarassed

I've uploaded the IR file.

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=download&file_id=1200

The same file contains all 4 protocols. View the notes on each of the buttons to see the specifics, but in general: I captured the Channel 1 and Channel 2 buttons by pushing the buttons repeatedly where necessary to get the remote to capture the signal. Then I captured the Channel + and Channel - buttons by holding them down.

In the notes of the IR file, I identify the device and OBC. These are known to be correct, because I can control them from my remote. I can put in whatever device number / subdevice / OBC code I want and see the adjustment in the signal.

I know I can build the protocol and upload it to the JP1 remote, but it defeats the purpose of my project. I need to know if the protocol already exists in the JP1 remote.

jon_armstrong · Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:42 pm Post subject:

Maybe someone has a better answer, but these all look like very old protocols. The reason is they all have 10 data bits and that doesn't provide for many commands/devices. IMO, all those manufacturer's have used their more recent protocol for at least ten years. All of those manufacturer's current protocols use eight function bits and eight device bits with the exception of RCA that uses four.

I'm sure the older JP1 remotes have some or all of them and the newer ones would have fewer to none of them. Many new protocol/devices have been added and the older ones get deleted. So, I think we would have difficulty in determining what protocols are in which remotes without a lot of work.

The JP1 remotes have the 6-pin interface in common but are quite different electronically and use a number of different processors. The tools make them seem more uniform than they are.

If you describe what you are trying to accomplish, then we might be able to provide a better answer.
_________________
-Jon

johnsfine · Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject:

Maybe he's trying to help you improve your comparison matrix spreadsheet.

I'm not sure I have an up to date comparison matrix. I see that it doesn't show a protocol 0007. At first glance protocol 0007 seems to match what Jason described for protocol C, but I haven't done any of the cross checking to know whether we already understand protocol 0007 and/or whether it really looks like C.

JasonLO · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

Well, I am in the process of hacking the Sony Clie Remote Commander. Sony has abandoned the program, so the people like me who have this program cannot add any unsupported devices to our Clie. I have created a program which will allow you to select which protocol to use, which device, which subdevice, and which OBC codes to transmit. There are many protocols build into the remote commander, but some of them are not known. By identifying the protocols, I enable other people to be be able to use them, look up devices in the device4.xls spreadsheet (for instance) and be able to add those devices and OBC codes into the main database.

In turn, it helps improve the decodeIR.DLL program here, and I can give the OBC codes to JP1 users for all the manufacturers already mapped to that protocol in the Clie. It also helps expand the knowledge base of protocols.

So there are a few benefits to this. My primary interest is to finish off the protocol mapping to make my hacking program more useful to Clie remote commander users. Personally, I use my One-For-All to control every device in my house already, so I am actually not gaining anything from this personally. But I like to hack, and others will benefit from it Smile

JasonLO · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

jon_armstrong · Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject:

Jason, email me at the address in my profile and I'll send the latest comparison matrix and a word document that describes the syntax. It is in a new format that was created by John Fine, but similar enough to the old that I think you will be able to understand it right away. John (and Rob) that was what I emailed to you a week or two ago. Jason, I can use any help I can get to keep that more up to date.

Also, John, a couple of years ago you helped someone decode the Clie format, on the old Yahoo board. Jason, I assume that was that you? I have something in my files called "crem" that is for a Clie that appears to add a command to the database for the Clie.
_________________
-Jon

JasonLO · Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 7

Yes, I am one and the same. I was decoding the protocols by trying to capture the signal from another type of remote that proved to be extremely difficult. I stopped working on it with only a handful of protocol decoded. Since then, I have gotten a JP1 based remote and built the cable. Now it is a thousand times easier.

And of course I have come to absolutely love this UEI based remote.

Another question: Sometimes IR (using decodeIR.DLL) interprets the learned signal as a specific protocol and then when I shut it off, it still interprets the learned signal as the same (or sometimes different) protocol. Is there anyway to get it to shut off completely and display just the captured pulses the way it does when it doesn't know the signal? I ask because a few of the protocols decode as NEC and I know there is going to be a slight difference between them but I can't see the raw signal pulses. I know I can look at the "raw data" hex codes, but I don't know how to interpret those into the pulse lengths.

Thanks, you guys are the greatest!

The Robman · Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:40 am Post subject:

To enable the pulse timings in IR, go to Advanced > Force Learned Timings
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

johnsfine · Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject:

I finally got around to downloading the .ir file from this thread. (I don't know if Jason is still looking for anything here).

I changed DecodeIr to decode his "Protocol A". I ran that through my entire collection of CCF files, to see if it decoded any of the signals in that collection that DecodeIR hadn't before. It doesn't, so the ony four samples I have are the ones from Jason's file.

Jason's B and D protocol both fit the basic pattern of "Akai" in DecodeIr (and decode as such) The B one seems to actually be the "Akai" protocol supported by pid-000d. I have seen a few other code sets with that same structure but with timing far enough from pid-000D that it probably wouldn't work in an upgrade. DecodeIr works primarily on structure, not timing, so I'm not sure where the boundaries are to distinguish one from another. I don't think any of these that I have in CCF files match the timing of Jason's D set. (Many of them match his B set and pid-000d).