JP1 Remotes

[Steveo369]

Hello: I've spent at least a full day's worth of time browsing these forums trying to find a way to program my URC-8811 with JP1 to emulate my Dell PC remote. The Dell PC remote is very similar (but not identical) to the Windows MCE Remote, and appears to use the same bothersome bit toggle protocol RC6-6-32. I'm using the remote with a PC running MCE

Here's what I've found so far.
The 8811 will learn signals from the Dell Remote with no problem. Examples of the learned signals from IR are:
Button Number 1
Protocol: RC6-6-32
Device: 128
Sub-Device: 7211
OBC: 1

Button Number 2
Protocol: RC6-6-32
Device: 128
Sub-Device: 7339
OBC: 2

"OK" Button
Protocol: RC6-6-32
Device: 128
Sub-Device: 7339
OBC: 92

"Play" Button
Protocol: RC6-6-32
Device: 128
Sub-Device: 7211
OBC: 44

I've tried loading the MCE remote file into KM, and then changed it to match my remote (the MCE remote file comes up as a 9800/8800). I've then uploaded the new protocol upgrade and device function 1272 and assigned it to my Sat button. All steps *should* be correct.

The remote won't control the PC. The LED on the receiver doesn't register receipt of a signal (no flashing, as it does with the Dell remote). I've tried modifying all of the options on the left side of KM (adding the device codes and subdevice codes, and tweaking the signal style, etc) and same behavior.

I'm thinking that my remote and receiver uses a different set of subdevice codes than the MCE remote, and that may be what's causing the problem.

I'd love to be able to learn all the functions and then use KM to produce an upgrade, but how can I do this when the protocol isn't defined/listed in the protocol list built-in to KM? I can't seem to get the thirdparty protocols as listed in the MCE file to work correctly. Would using different device and sub-device values create incompatibility with the protocol as given in that file?

I've been reading through so much information the past few days prior to posting about this (I just got my JP1 cable wednesday) that I'm not entirely sure that what I'm saying is making any sense. I also realize that this is a pretty big jump in knowledge for a noob. I did start out by programming my Aspire DVD player from scratch and uploaded that text file yesterday. That was a cakewalk compared to this RC6-6-32 protocol stuff.

Again, the amount of knowledge and effort put into the faqs and forums here is amazing. Thanks in advance for any help. I may break down and purchase an official MCE 2005 remote just to troubleshoot further.
-Steve[/list]

[johnsfine]

[Steveo369]

John:
Thanks for the (optimistic!) reply. After a couple of hours of of trying different runs and uploads with IR, I figured that might be what the problem was, and finally decided to post up my issue and "burden" the experts here with tracking down bits for another obscure remote.

So, I guess the basic question is:
What is the right "fixed data" for device codes 128 and alternating sub-device codes 7211 and 7339 in the RC6-6-32 protocol?

Judging by the posts on this subject, this protocol is/has been more or less a PITA to the community. ugh.

Again, thanks for the help and response!
-Steve

[jon_armstrong]

According to John's latest documentation:

RC6-6-32
IRP notation: {36k,444,msb}<-1,1|1,-1>(6,-2,1:1,6:3,<-2,2|2,-2>(T:1),D:8,S:16,F:8,-???)+
This protocol is commonly used in Media Center remotes. As of version 8.31, KM does not have built-in support for this protocol, but there are KM format upgrade files available for Media Center (built by an expert who isn't limited to KM's built-in protocols). Those upgrades should be adaptable to any RC6-6-32 code set (by changing the fixed data), if the one you have doesn't already match the upgrade.

In the 16-bit sub-device:

00011100 0 0101011 "7211 "

00011100 1 0101011 "7339"

It looks like bit 7 (in a 15 ... 0 bit convention) toggles.
_________________
-Jon

[Steveo369]

jon_armstrong: Pardon for my naiveté, but I'm not sure what your response means. I assume that you've looked at the subdevice codes and determined that bit 7 is the one that toggles in my Dell remote (which my receiver recognizes).

I guess what I'm unsure of is how this helps me, and what I have to do with this information. I tried changine the Bits/Dev and Bits/CMD cells in KM to bit 7 and uploading the device upgrade and protocol to my remote. This didn't work, resulting in the keypad light coming on continuously (obvious error or something)

Because I've not had ANY luck with KM upgrades emulating this remote, I'm unsure if I should be doing the following:

Should I even try changing the Device1/Device2/Device3 cells in KM to match my device and subdevice codes, or is this simply based on the raw fixed data cell?

I'm still learning!

[johnsfine]

[gfb107]

Here's a protocols.ini entry I put together. It automatically sets but 7 of the sub-device to 0 when generating the fixed data, without actually changing the value entered by the user. I've also included some note about it's use with Windows MCE. I set the default values for Device and Sub-Device to be what the MS Windows MCE remote uses.

If everyone is happy with it, I'll include it in the next version of RM.

[Steveo369]

John and Greg:

Thanks for the help, I'll try to upload this information tonight when I get home from work and let you know how it goes...

Am I correct in assuming that I DON'T put the device/subdevice codes in the left hand cells of KM, just import this protocol and make sure the fixed data cell matches that of your replies?

I really appreciate the patience and help you guys have shown here. It's been a long time since my Fortran/Pascal programming classes. Engineer by trade, and I know my way around computers, but once we start talking outside standardized GUI shells, I'm a little slower on the take up. I work with Excel daily for "simple" structural calculations, and recognize the complexity of KM....

[jon_armstrong]

Steveo369, In KM you would substitute "E2 80 1C 2B" without the quotes in cell C12 on the setup tab. In RM, Greg has set it up so you could enter the device (128) and sub-device (7211) in decimal. That should return the exact same fixed data.

John and Greg, I have a pdf document from Dell that describes their version of RC6-6-32 and since I think we will see a lot of Media center PC's, it may well be useful to define a special case. I have also looked at two files from the ProntoNG group that have several MCE2004 and 2005 files. In PENG and PPENG they come up as a formatted command

616A 0000 0000 0001 0004 000C for PC Power toggle. In a spot check all used device 0004.

Here is the IR protocol from the Dell document in tems of an IRP format:

Microsoft Protocol?
IRP notation: {36k,444,msb}<-1,1|1,-1>(6,-2,1:1,6:3,-2,2,OEM1:8,OEM2:8,T:1,D:7,F:8,^106.7m)+

OEM1=128

OEM2=15 D=04 MCE 2004
OEM2=28 D=43 Dell MCE 2005?
OEM2=28 D=00 Dell W4200

For Dell
D=0 for "advanced TV", 43 for MCE

I broke the OEM into two 8 bit bytes since the first is 128 decimal in the three cases I've seen so far. I have a Gateway MCE2004 computer and it is consistent with the OEM1=128, OEM2=15, and D=04 . It looks like the Pronto also sees the 7-bit device consistent with Dell's description.

The toggle bit appears to work in the cases I've seen so far.
_________________
-Jon

[johnsfine]

Do you think I should special case and rename this in DecodeIR as proposed below?

1) Detect this special case of RC6-6-32 when the first data byte is 128 and the RC6 toggle bit is 0.

2) Name it "MCE" protocol instead of RC6-6-32.

3) Report the 7-bit field that Dell calls device as "device".

4) Report the 8-bit field OEM2 as "subdevice".

5) Not report the 128, because it is part of the definition of MCE.

6) Report the T bit as used by MS and Dell and the T bit for MCE.

Also, Do you have any CCF files with that 616A format, or just PCF files?
I can see the device field in that format and I assume they don't need OEM1, but how do they encode OEM2?

[jon_armstrong]

[Steveo369]

Wooot!!! on to something here guys!

It appears that the new protocol works! Unfortunately, the Dell remote does not use all of the same OBC's as the Windows MCE remote.

Volume is the same, as are the number keys.

I'm going through KM right now and reassigning the functions to the correct OBC codes and assigning functions to buttons. I'll followup the post if it works, and probably upload a new txt file with the goods.

I'm floored here. this is awesome!

[Steveo369]

Well, with the new fixed data for KM imported, I was able to learn each of the buttons and assign the correct OBC for each function. As I mentioned in my last post, most of the OBC's for functions on the Dell remote were different than those assigned to the Windows MCE remote.

I was able to map the functions to buttons on the remote and load the upgrade including the protocol as if it were built into KM.

Perfect!

Unfortunately, the Dell MCE remote that I have does not have all of the functions identical to the real Windows MCE remote (for example, the Dell remote doesn't have a "More Info" button or a "Guide" button). I had hoped that perhaps trying some of the Windows MCE OBC functions would be recognized by the IR receiver and work for the same functions, but unfortunately that was not the case.

I've uploaded the Device upgrade code to the files/misc section http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=1272

There's a couple other quirks with this remote when using it with Windows XP MCE, such as the number keys only register as numbers, and don't cycle through the phone-text letters as they're supposed to. The clear button also isn't recognized. I suspect this behavior is due to the way that the USB IR receiver is recognized as hardware. It's recognized as a HID-Compliant keyboard and mouse, and not as an IR device, as I believe the regular Windows MCE remote receiver is.

I've ordered a Microsoft Windows MCE remote and receiver from Newegg. It should be here near the end of the week. I'm guessing that the official upgrade I downloaded from here will emulate that one properly.

I want to thank you experts here for helping me out on this situation. It's quickly ramped me up on the basics of KM and IR. I haven't yet quite figured out RM yet, I think I'll start playing with that next....

[gfb107]

So, have we come to agreement on a special case for the MCE protocol? Has anyone tweaked the protocols.ini entry I posted above to match the new special case?
_________________
-- Greg
Original RemoteMaster developer
JP1 How-To's and Software Tools
The #1 Code Search FAQ and it's answer (PLEASE READ FIRST)

[johnsfine]