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EFC vs. Hex CMD - Panasonic SA-HE200
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jethrogoss



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 1:59 am    Post subject: EFC vs. Hex CMD - Panasonic SA-HE200 Reply with quote

I've been gleaning information off of here and the yahoo file sites for a while, and a few days ago my father put together a cable for me to try with my URC-8911. I think I'm starting to get the hang of IR, but there are still a number of confusing issues!

I've been trying to assign keys via EFC to control my Panasonic reciever which has setup code 1518 (not in any of the advanced code lists). I did find an upgrade file for another remote for this receiver and just checked out the plain text version of that. I found that the EFC listed in there seemed to match the code I see in the key moves when I used the key move function in the remote for the receiver's volume keys (so I could control that while in SAT mode), except that there is something else in front. That is, the efc for volume up seemed to be 213, but the entry in my key move showed
*** 181 or 213 and the hex cmd box had 2 entries $FF $FB. I then tried learning this on the remote and downloaded that to IR to see what the learning entry was and got:

1 Panasonic 160 0 28 FB 213

A straight 213 entered into the keymove doesn't work, it needs to be entered as the hex cmd. I then started running through hex codes in the key move page until I found another one that matched a function in that upgrade file - 214 for 'balance'. Sure enough, when I have $FF $9B (which is what gave me *** 181 or 214) and uploaded that to the remote it did send the balance key.

So what is the extra code *** 181 at the start of these commands (hex $FF) for the Panasonic? My other devices have programmed fine using the advanced code stuff - EFC 006 for discrete on in my Toshiba tv with setup code 156 for example. And how do you translate the hex cmd to the EFC (or actually the reverse?). I'd like to find discrete on/off for the panasonic, and maybe the generic codes for that brand would work if only I could get the right hex cmd to give me '*** 181 or 022' (022 is the generic discrete on for panasonic). Although I'd like to have the whole list, most functions can be learned to a key as I have lots of learning memory left - but the discretes of course don't have a key on the original remote.

Anyone, anyone, Ferris?
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usblipitor



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: EFC vs. Hex CMD - Panasonic SA-HE200 Reply with quote

jethrogoss wrote:
I've been trying to assign keys via EFC to control my Panasonic reciever which has setup code 1518 (not in any of the advanced code lists).
What is the model number of your Panasonic Receiver?
jethrogoss wrote:
I did find an upgrade file for another remote for this receiver and just checked out the plain text version of that.
Keymap-master.xls, or Remote Master.java will allow you to take that text file and easily (1 mouse click, really!) convert all the information to your OFA-8911 remote. These text files are actually meant to be used by KM/RM to save space (a saved spreadsheet is 2m, a saved text file is only 25k) to conserve file storage on the yahoo JP1 site, not to be analyzed by human eyes, although there is nothing wrong with that.

I am assuming that you have not been using KM and are only using IR, perhaps because you do not have excel? Remote Master (RM) is a java program that I have read is at least as good as, if not better, than KM. So if you do not have excel, download RM.

So here is what I would do to get things working: download KM (or RM if you do not have microsoft excel), load your text file into it with the load key on the first page, and click on the remote box and select from the drop down menu your OFA-8911 which is on the list. Just for grins, click on the functions tab to look at what functions have been defined for your receiver, and click on the buttons tab to see which buttons have been assigned these functions on your OFA-8911 remote; if you don't like the assignments, change them here (I think this is where RM may have an advantage over KM - they both let you change button assigments easily, but RM I have read makes it even more of a breeze.)

Next, you save your newly modified KM/RM upgrade. I would go to IR.exe now and if you have not yet done so, click on "file" then "select" then pick the 8911.rdf from the list. IR.exe is now aware of the 8911 configuration. Next, copy and paste the contents of the device box from KM to IR, then copy and paste the contents of the protocol box (if there is anything in this box) from KM to IR.

Save the file you created in IR, then hook up your remote to the jp1 cable and "upload to remote" in IR. Then go test the remote and let us know what happened. Good Luck!
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jethrogoss



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - I'll take a further look at that. I haven't used the upgrade stuff because only my wife's computer has Excel, and all my devices do work with the setup codes. So even the Panasonic SA-HE200 does respond to the remote, but I'm just trying to get to some more advanced codes.

The KM upgrade file I found is for a different remote, the 7800 maybe. So I guess the key assignments would be different. Also, I did download the RM program, and tried to import the KM file, and then tried a version from somewhere else, but it always went unresponsive when I did so - tabs wouldn't come up and/or had funky values. So I think I'd probably have to wait for a later version of the software or start making my own file from scratch - in which case I'd still need the EFC codes. Actually I just tried this again loading in the KM file under Files>Device Codes->PanasonicSA-HE200c7.txt, and it prompts for a remote (no exact match found), I give it the 7800 since that's what it seemed to be based on, and then I end up with nothing useable - only the device name and the setup code show up in RM, all the key maps, functions, buttons, etc. are all blank.

Again, the whacky thing about the commands for this devices is that they seem to have another code entered - instead of 213 being the value for the the volume key, it's '*** 181 or 213'. I think I could probably just work through all the codes and eventually find ones in the range that may work for the discrete on/off, but a) that would take a while, b) I still wouldn't know what the relationship was between the hex cmd and the EFC.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jethrogoss wrote:
I did download the RM program, and tried to import the KM file, and then tried a version from somewhere else, but it always went unresponsive when I did so - tabs wouldn't come up and/or had funky values. So I think I'd probably have to wait for a later version of the software or start making my own file from scratch - in which case I'd still need the EFC codes. Actually I just tried this again loading in the KM file under Files>Device Codes->PanasonicSA-HE200c7.txt, and it prompts for a remote (no exact match found), I give it the 7800 since that's what it seemed to be based on, and then I end up with nothing useable - only the device name and the setup code show up in RM, all the key maps, functions, buttons, etc. are all blank.


Please, please, please! people, when you see something that looks like a bug in one of the tools, report it. Don't assume that someone else is going to find it. If we don't know about the problems, we can't fix them.

The upgrade file you tried to import into RM uses the Device Combiner protocol, which unfortunately RM doesn't YET support. When I tried to load it I got an "Import Failure" pop-up with the following message:

Quote:
No protocol found with name="Device Combiner" for remote "URC-7800 Cinema 7"

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Last edited by gfb107 on Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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jethrogoss



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually not sure it is a bug in the tool - maybe just a problem with how I;m using it. I downloaded the latest RM, and the RM .rdf files, then tried to use this KM file from the given spot. I'm just guessing at half this stuff anyway - should this have worked?
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1518 is a combo code that uses 1-byte keymoves, so you can't use regular advanced codes (ie, EFCs) with this code.

Open up the file you downloaded using KM and re-arrange the buttons to your taste, then load up the upgrade instead of using keymoves to fix the situation.

If keymoves are still required, let KM control them.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jethrogoss wrote:
I'm actually not sure it is a bug in the tool - maybe just a problem with how I;m using it. I downloaded the latest RM, and the RM .rdf files, then tried to use this KM file from the given spot. I'm just guessing at half this stuff anyway - should this have worked?


No, it should not have worked. This is because the upgrade you need uses the Devcie Combiner protocol, which is not YET supported by RM.
I'm just guessing, but I would say the RM can successfully import abot 90% of KM upgrades. You just happened to have one that it can't.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm didn't really follow everything said in this thread, but I think Jethro may be looking for instructions on creating KeyMoves in RCVR/1518 based on the EFCs for RCVR/0308
http://www.hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?amp_0308

That can be done with IR.EXE (you can't create those KeyMoves without JP1).

First you need to have the 1-byte hex command, rather than the EFC. The decoder gives that (it's the FB mentioned for EFC 213 in the top message of this thread). It's also easy to translate an EFC to a 1-byte hex command using the EFC calculator in IR's tools menu. It can also be done using KM or RM.

Next you make the two byte hex command by puting an FF and a blank in front of the 1-byte hex command (that works for anything in RCVR/0308 and anything decoded with a subdevice of 0, but must be changed for the commands of this device that have other subdevices).

In IR.EXE's KeyMove definition widow, you select hex cmd (rather than EFC) and enter the 2-byte hex command, such as FF FD

If you prefer to use RM, you don't need the Device Combiner protocol. Use the Panasonic Combo2 protocol. The device (160) goes on the setup sheet. The subdevice (usually, but not always 0) goes in the SubDevice column on the Functions sheet. You can also use RM that way to compute the 2-byte hex commands if you want just KeyMoves.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: EFC vs. Hex CMD - Panasonic SA-HE200 Reply with quote

jethrogoss wrote:
So what is the extra code *** 181 at the start of these commands (hex $FF) for the Panasonic?


Just to clarify that detail:

In the Panasonic combo2 protocol used by RCVR/1518, the first byte of the hex command represents the subdevice. EFC 181 and hex command FF are the ways a 0 (for subdevice 0) are represented in "LSB-comp" format (used by Panasonic).
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jethrogoss



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your feedback, especially John. I was missing the piece on the IR EFC Calculator. With that, I got the discrete on/off codes for the SA-HE200, which were just the generic ones but with the combo format - *** 181 or 022 instead of plain 022 as the EFC, and the calculator got me FF 83 to enter it.

Great source of info, if a little overwhelming sometimes Wink. I'll probably try out the KM files too since its so easy to switch the settings back and forth - I think I understand it enough now to at least give it a try.

I was thinking of just putting the discrete on/off for all my components on the shifted L1/L2 keys for each of those, and maybe using shift POWER as the master off. I like the idea of programming the device keys as the macros to put you into that mode, but if your last command is to say put you in home theater mode (which I do for the DVD) then ho you lose any way to get back into the 'normal' mode for that device?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi. That was my upgrade for the Panasonic you found at Yahoo, and yes, it was indeed for the 7800. The SA-HE200 actually has four different subcodes, so it made sense to me to use Device Combiner to help keep things straight. Glad it was of some help to you.

To use the upgrade for your 8911, rum Keymap-master, and on the setup page, load the upgrade file, then change the remote type from 7800 to 8911. Then go to the buttons page to customize it the way you like it. BTW, there's a tune+ and tune- function available that's not on the original remote.

What do you think of the receiver? I'm really impressed with mine. It replaced a stack of 5 separates and a video switcher for $199, and it sounds great to me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I made a Panasonic combo upgrade for my 6800 long ago, I also chose to use the Device combiner protocol rather than a Panasonic combo protocol.

But for this device, for an 8911, I think it's worth switching from the Device Combiner protocol to the Panasonic Combo2 protocol. The EFCs should stay the same when you switch that, but the extra byte changes from being an index into the subdevices defined on the setup sheet (Device Combiner) to being the direct value of subdevice (Panasonic Combo2).
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gfb107 wrote:

Please, please, please! people, when you see something that looks like a bug in one of the tools, report it. Don't assume that someone else is going to find it. If we don't know about the problems, we can't fix them.

Greg, this goes back to the bug I opened in September "#805117 RM will not function after a bad RDF is read". I think you did some work on this but it is still a little bit of a problem. Simply put when RM encounters a bad RDF or and RDF that does not match the upgrade or is an unsupported protocol it should display that fact and clean up after itself. Try the two RDF's marked NG in the RM only RDF distribution and you will see what happens.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nils_Ekberg wrote:
Greg, this goes back to the bug I opened in September "#805117 RM will not function after a bad RDF is read".

Was it that, or the fact that the upgrade was using the Device Combiner protocol? Either way, I agree that RM should be a bit more graceful in handling errors of either kind.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Pierson wrote:
Was it that, or the fact that the upgrade was using the Device Combiner protocol? Either way, I agree that RM should be a bit more graceful in handling errors of either kind.

There are atleast 3 conditions that I am aware of that can cause a situation where RM needs to do some clean up to keep running.
    1) Is what I put in the bug tracker where RM encounters a bad RDF and effectively locks up until you remove the remote from the properties file.
    2) When RM encounters an upgrade with an unsupported protocol such as combo or manual.
    3) Is when the remote selected does not match the upgrade being imported.
The 2 & 3 just popped up within the last couple of days.
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