JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Program OneForAll 8810 remote for Lite-On 7551 IR keyboard
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Keyboards
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What more can I say, Jon, but thanks and more thanks! Once I have pasted these functions into the Airboard upgrade in KM (which I'm assuming should be my next step), would it be worth adding to the files section? Something like "Airboard_with_media_keys.txt"?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, FWIW, all of your decodes (at least the ones I've tried) have worked perfectly, Jon. Thanks again. I also discovered something odd, which I can't quite explain. I removed the **53** and **5D** entries from the Volume Up and Down boxes in my version of the Make and Break upgrade, so nothing should have been mapped to those keys. I also have Volume punch through enabled on all my devices. Nevertheless, when I push any of the arrow directional keys (in scrolling through a list on myHTPC frontend, for instance) and then quickly follow it with a Vol. Up or Down, the directional movement is rapidly repeated, almost like a Page Up or Down mechanism. Maybe the volume protocol for the HK receiver is the same as Page Up/Down, or maybe those **53** and **5D** commands are hidden repeaters (though I'm almost certain I never mapped them to my remote), I don't know. More experimentation to follow, but I thought it was at least worth noting...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually 0x53 is the universal repeat command for any keyboard key. 0x5D is an all clear or something like that. I have seen it at the end of many of the command sequences captured by the Pronto's.

I have tried to emulate all of that in the long promised repeating protocol. This should be substituted for the protocol in the make and break keys. Basically for any key you get the make command and if you hold it will repeat with 0x53. When released you get the break followed by 0x5D. The timing may be off so it may repeat too fast but let me know what happens:

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 90 (S3C8+) Airboard_Make_Repeat_and_Break_PB (PB v3.11)
42 89 01 8B 14 84 04 08 08 00 00 01 90 01 6F 00
20 03 48 01 6F 00 20 08 03 F6 01 46 B6 03 1F C6
1C A8 5E F6 01 46 F6 01 0A FB 19 E6 03 CA C6 1C
03 48 F6 01 46 B6 03 1F C6 1C A8 5E F6 01 46 F6
01 0A 7B E7 09 03 B6 03 01 C6 1C 03 48 F6 01 46
B6 03 1F F6 01 46 E6 03 BA F6 01 46 B6 03 1F 8D
01 46
End


And, once we get this last piece tweaked, please do put together an upgrade with all the keys and an explanation for how to use the various pieces.
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid I must be doing something wrong, Jon, because I'm not getting the repeating behavior with this new protocol. All I did was edit my pre-existing version of the Make-and-Break upgrade in IR by pasting in the new protocol (did nothing to the device code). Then uploaded to the remote. Should I have 0x53 and 0x5D assigned to a key? Because I currently do not, although pressing the volume keys still gets the repeating behavior. Or do I need to do something in KM?

Sorry to need the hand-holding. I'm truly still a complete newb at this Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Froim your description, I can't see anything wrong. You might try to save your existing configuration in IR, do a manufacturer's reset and then load the new protocol upgrade with the "make and break" device upgrade. Make sure you assign the keys in the buttons tab.

If that still doesn't work, post your file from IR in the diagnosis area and I'll take a look. From testing, I can see that it definitely repeats. Perhaps I have the timing (gap between frames) wrong, but I don't think it's that sensitive to timing since I have seen a lot of variation in the learned commands.

There also may be something I don't understand.
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I think I figured out the problem. I still had a copy of the old 0190 protocol in my IR config attached to the original non-Make-and-Break upgrade, to which I had keymoved Alt, Ctrl, F1, and F4, in order to make the compound keystrike macros I need for various run and exit functions. When I deleted that from the Device and Protocol tabs, and re-upped to the remote, the repeating action worked. Only it was a quite fast, and thus made it difficult to zero in on desired selection while scrolling. Can I tweak the timing on my end?

If I am understanding things correctly, compound keystrikes will not work with Make-and-Break. Is there a way to adapt it for certain functions, i.e. to somehow insert the "Make" for the a second keystrike before the "Break" for the first one? Or does the non-Make-and-Break just need a different Protocol ID or something to distinguish it?

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this:

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 90 (S3C8+) Airboard_Make_Repeat_and_Break_PB (PB v3.11)
42 89 01 8B 14 84 04 08 08 00 00 01 90 01 6F 00
20 03 48 01 6F 00 20 08 03 F6 01 46 B6 03 1F C6
1C FF FF F6 01 46 F6 01 0A FB 19 E6 03 CA C6 1C
03 48 F6 01 46 B6 03 1F C6 1C FF FF F6 01 46 F6
01 0A 7B E7 09 03 B6 03 01 C6 1C 03 48 F6 01 46
B6 03 1F F6 01 46 E6 03 BA F6 01 46 B6 03 1F 8D
01 46
End

I increased the gaps between the frames by 60%. Let me know if that's too slow.

You are right, for compound commands you need to use the original make OR break protocol. Lets also give the three different protocols different ID numbers to avoid the problem you encountered, once we get the testing done.
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done a little bit more testing with all three make-and-break protocols (original, one you posted yesterday, and the one posted today) and though the latter two successfully add the repeating behavior, so far they've proved a little erratic. With both repeating protocols, the difference between a single press and a hold is very thin, so often a press gets interpreted as 5 or 6 repeats. Conversely, the time it takes to register a single press is longer than normal, so if you wanted to hit "down" several times in a row, you have to wait a half second between each press. Also, for reasons I can't explain, while simply scrolling through a list, the new protocol randomly loses focus on the main window and selects a hidden or minimized window. Several times it has also seemed to get confused and done a left instead of a down, for instance.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific or clear. And I hate to return anything but a glowing thumbs up for all your work, but I'm guessing you want a robust result more than sycophantic praise Wink

I'm also guessing that in most situations, people would only want the arrow keys and a few others to repeat, and given the erratic behavior of the repeating make-and-break (and the rock solid performance of the non-repeating make-and-break) I think a user-defineable combination of 4 protocols might deliver the most stable result.

1. Mouse movements
2. Basic make-and-break
3. Repeating make-and-break
4. Make OR Break (for compound commands)

Make sense? Or might this require too many keymoves and eat up too much memory? I'm happy to continue testing whatever you like, though...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnya wrote:
.. I'm guessing you want a robust result more than sycophantic praise...


No obsequience required -- I can take the cruel facts Smile

Let's give it another try. I'm guessing the final command doesn't add anything and may be what's causing the lose of focus. So that's gone.

Also there is a bigger gap between the first and subsequent repeat commands and I have now included that:

Upgrade protocol 0 = 01 90 (S3C8+) Airboard_Make_Repeat_and_Break_PB (PB v3.11)
42 89 01 8B 14 84 04 08 08 00 00 01 90 01 6F 00
20 03 48 01 6F 00 20 08 03 F6 01 46 B6 03 1F C6
1C FF FF F6 01 46 F6 01 0A FB 19 E6 03 CA C6 1C
03 48 F6 01 46 B6 03 1F C6 1C A8 5E F6 01 46 F6
01 0A 7B E7 09 03 B6 03 01 C6 1C 03 48 F6 01 46
B6 03 1F 8D 01 46
End
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God am I stupid Embarassed

In addition to the Make or Break protocol I had in my IR config for those compound functions (which I have now deleted to avoid the duplicate protocol IDs), I had also installed your Mouse Movement protocol. Because I was already using the arrows for scrolling through menus on my frontend, I naively keymmoved the mouse movments onto 2 (up), 6 (right), 8 (down), and 4 (left) instead, neglecting to remember the arrow keys were "hard-wired" into the upgrade.

Removing the mouse movement protocol banished all the erratic behavior I was experiencing earlier. There are still occasional instances where a single keypress returns a rapid series of repeats (perhaps more a function of the "out-of-the-box" stickiness of my 8811's buttons than any inherent failing in the code), but otherwise the protocol works as advertised Very Happy (no idea what that means about the utility of the "final command" you referred to, I'm afraid).

So... how do I/we integrate all 3 protocols (Make-Repeat-and-Break, Make or Break, and Mouse Movement) without eating up all the Key Move memory or causing any conflicts? Personally, I would prefer to include the non-repeating Make-and-Break as well, so I don't have to worry about certain buttons repeating if I hold them a tic too long, but that might be asking too much Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which of the last two repeating protocols worked better, if you can tell?

I still haven't figured out a good way of getting a longer gap between the first and second frame (the make key and the first repeat.) It probably needs another 70 mS for a total of 200mS. I think that short first gap is the hair trigger problem. I think the actual keyboard works with all repeating keys. Even if we don't resolve that hair trigger issue, I can get it down to two device/protocol upgrades but it will take two variable bytes and use the bottom two bits of the second byte as control bits.

So "Byte Two" would be:

0=for non-repeating(NR), Make AND break (MAB)
1=repeating (R), MAB
2=NR, Make OR Break (MOB)
(I can't see any practical need for R, MOB)

Even though it costs an extra byte for each key assigned (and some additional protocol bytes), that would still save a net four bytes over each key move avoided

Any thoughts anyone?
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon_armstrong wrote:
Which of the last two repeating protocols worked better, if you can tell?


To be honest, they're very, very similar in behavior and I'm having difficulty getting enough consistent results to say anything conclusive. If anything, the latter one has slightly fewer instances of the hair-trigger reaction, but they seem to come willy-nilly. I believe the very first, with the "clear all" command included, allows the user to press a button as quickly as he/she likes and get results, without the need for a half-second pause inbetween, but as they currently exist all the hold-and-repeat protocols are still somewhat erratic. An increased delay might solve this, but I can't say, nor can I offer any helpful advice on how to achieve one, as the coding itself is still way above my head.

Sorry I can't be more help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just uploaded a completely new device/protocol upgrade and I think it may solve some problems. My previous several attempts had a bug in the release flag, so I suspect that may have caused some of the problems. I went ahead and added a control byte, that allows you to select among the various options discussed in my previous post.

Please try this repeating protocol and see if the hair trigger is gone. I also included the mouse commands and could you test to make sure I got rid of the dyslexic right and left commands.

BTW, for several reasons you must install both the new device and new protocol upgrade for the keyboard commands.
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa Surprised

Nice work Jon. It'll take me a couple days to re-configure my setup and report back (pretty busy with other stuff), but just wanted to thank you, yet again, for going above and beyond the call! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnnya



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jump a quick check in as I continue to re-map my old config to the new (and improved!) upgrade...

I could be misunderstanding things, but to my eyes the OBC, EFC, and Hex codes are identical for the 3 and the 9 keys, as well as the 1 and the 7 keys on the keyboard. Is this right?

Otherwise, things are working great! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Keyboards All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central