JP1 Remotes

[rickspindrift]

My TV (a Panasonic CT-27D11) has an RF tuner and 3 video inputs, so pressing the TV/Video button cycles through the four input modes. Does anyone know a way of creating discretes for this so I can directly select a specific video input?

I think I see a way to use ToadTogs to do this, but having the discretes would be cleaner as it eliminates the possibility of things getting out of sync. BTW, if anyone has used ToadTogs to do a 2 bit (4 way) switch, I would love a working example.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[rickspindrift]

As Roseanne Rosannadanna said (yeah, I know, I'm dating myself) "Never mind".

A quick trip to remotecentral.com and I found that the discretes I'm looking for were device 128, subdevice 0, codes 0, 1, 2, and 3. Unfortunately, none of them work on my TV. Fortunately, I also found a suggestion that CH+ will always go to the RF input, so a Video 1 discrete would be CH+ followed by TV/Video. That works like a charm.

[Herbie]

I've got a similar vintage Panasonic TV, and a similar set of problems. (i.e. mine doesn't respond to any of the discrete input selects)

I'm hoping to spark some discussion on some observations I've made about my unit.

History:
For a long time, I used the CH+, TV_VID, etc. trick as a discrete select, but it was a SLOW command, and required that the remote be held in position longer than I'd like. (This was on an extended 15-1994).

For a while, I switched my gear around to have everything use S-Video and let the receiver do the switching. Now I'd like to go back to using Component for the DVD player, which means I'm facing this problem again. (And I've sense switched to a 6131m)

Here's what I've found:

As far as I can tell, the Panasonic seems to respond to the first command REALLY quickly, and the rest have to have a lot of delay.

I can send DiscreteOn and CH+ back to back even on my extended 6131m (very fast macro execution) and it picks up that command fine EVERY time, whether the TV was previously On or Off..

However, the NEXT command (i.e. TV/VID to toggle to the next input) doesn't work reliably without some delay. And if the TV is Off when the macro starts, it neads a TON of delay before it works reliably.

For example, my current "Discrete On, Video 2 select" macro for my VCR device button ooks something like this (note the arrangement of commands to maximize the time between commands to the TV, and I've "unrolled" some nested macros that run in the middle to turn on the Amp, etc.):

X_TV, DiscreteOn, CH+, X_VCR, DiscreteOn, X_AUD, DiscreteOn, 5 (input select on receiver), V_AUD, T_VCR, O_VCR, X_TV, PAUSE, TV/VID, PAUSE, TV/VID

Pause is defined as 03 or 04 using the TV/1104 Pause Protocol, which according to the documentation means I'm adding as much as 1.6 SECONDS between commands (although it seems to be a bit less than this). Even with this arrangement I only get about 90% success with the macro when the TV is off. (When the TV is on, I can get away with much less delay).

So does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'm really puzzled by the change in delay required if the TV was off to start with, especially since it always picks up the first command (CH+) right away no matter what.

My first thought was to use a TOADTog workaround, but I'm really concerned about synchronization issues and the WAF. At least with the current setup, if it fails the first time, my wife just hits the "VCR" button again and it works the second time. If the TOADTog gets out of synch, I'd have to teach her to do something else.

Any other thoughts? The only other thing I can think of is to add an LKP to re-synch the TOADTog stuff, but that's getting me farther and farther away from the "One key press" implementation that I've had for so long (with HUGE WAF, thank you very much).

Thanks!

EDIT: From the searches, it looks like others have noted the same timing issues with the TV off vs. on. Any of those folks come up with anything?
_________________
TiVo FREAK!
Brutalizing my 15-1994 since 2000, thanks to JP1
Now abusing a 6131m, 2116, and 2104 too!

[mr_d_p_gumby]

Although it varies a lot from one TV to the next, both the Power On and Channel +/- commands are likely to be the two slowest commands, though for different reasons.

The channel +/- causes the tuner to change channels (duh!), but what is not obvious is that most TVs have an Automatic Fine Tuning (AFT) feature, which causes the tuner to sweep through a range of frequencies until it locks on to the desired signal. This takes a long time, at least in terms of sending commands to the set.

The Power On command on some sets seems to take forever until it will respond to another command. The computer in the TV gets rather busy in checking that the set is working OK and it usually has to wait until it senses that various parts of the circuitry have stabilized before it can do anything else. Maybe your set gets the CH+ command and simply stores it until it's done with the power-up sequence.

None of the above will solve your problem, of course. Usually, the solution lies in adding enough delay to make it work reliably. From looking at your macro, it looks like you are on the right track (if you want to avoid ToadTog). Is there any advantage to sending the CH+ immediately after Power On? Have you experimented with insterting a delay after Power On but before CH+?
_________________
Mike England

• JP1 Group at Yahoo!, JP1 Files Area

[rickspindrift]

I've had similar timing issues with an additional twist. I need two consecutive TV/Video commands to get to Video 2, where my cable box is attached, and the Panasonic just doesn't seem to like that. Even with excessive delay, like a hex value of 40, it doesn't work well. However, I've discovered if I insert a Vol+, Vol- (so I leave it at the same level) between the two TV/Video commands, it works fine. Apparently the TV is interpreting the second TV/Video as a continuation of the first and not responding. If I send anything else inbetween (Vol+, Vol- is convenient) then it figures out that the second one is indeed a different command.

My set also wants a fair amount of time after the power up. I'm figuring on doing pretty much what you did, going on to the other parts of the system and then putting in some delay before I go back to the TV. After all, if you are doing it manually, you usually wait for the screen to come on before you do anything else, and that takes some time.

[Herbie]

[The Robman]

Another couple of alternatives...

1) put buttons for other devices in between the TV/VCR buttons (ie, stuff you need to do anyway)

2) rather than use a button like VOL+, which you will need to counter-act with a VOL-, you could use a button that has no effect at this time (like EXIT perhaps). If you can't find a button that has no effect, try making one up by using a meaningless advanced code. Chances are that the TV will recognize that it's one of it's signals, but when it looks up the OBC in it's internal chart it will see that it's not listed and won't do anything.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[mr_d_p_gumby]

There's one other thing that you might experiment with. Remember that when you use a command inside a macro, the remote sends a minimum-length signal. On my set (a notorious Toshiba TOAD), I had to use Device Combiner to increase the length of the video input select command to overcome a similar problem where it would sometimes not respond to a second or third command in a row. Also, since I was already using it, I used the Device Combiner to extend the length of a few other commands to avoid having to insert a Pause in the macro.
_________________
Mike England

• JP1 Group at Yahoo!, JP1 Files Area

[Herbie]

Well, I messed around with it a little more this morning.

Adding in a Vol+ command did seem to help some, it allowed me to remove one of my delay steps (between the two TV_VID commands).

Vol+ for me is a "no effect" step since the TV's speakers are turned off.

Since I was already doing Rob's first suggestion (doing "everything else" for the other devices in between the CH+ and first TV_VID commands), and the delay wasn't quite long enough, I still need a single delay step there.

But its quick enough now to be tolerable, which should let me put off a new TV purchase for a little while, at least. (I was already considering going HDTV soon anyways, and this persistant issue was about to push me over the edge!)

Thanks for the suggestions.
_________________
TiVo FREAK!
Brutalizing my 15-1994 since 2000, thanks to JP1
Now abusing a 6131m, 2116, and 2104 too!