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Escient Fireball E40 Music Manager
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tcook2727



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Escient Fireball E40 Music Manager Reply with quote

I am new to JP1 and I am trying to get the codes for an Escient Fireball E40 Music Manager programed into a URC-9910. I have learned all the keys and downloaded the info from the remote into IR.exe, but the protocols all start with GAP-208. I am trying to figure out the protocol and other info I need to enter into KM. I would appreciate any help you folks could give me.

Here's an IR file with some of the learned signals:

HT Remote 2.IR

1. Device: Escient Fireball E40 Music Manager
2. Type of device: CD Jukebox controller
3. Remote model: URC-9910
4. JP1 user? Yes
5. Still have original remote? Yes
6. Checked Yahoo file section? Yes, none there
7. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes, I found a CCF file there and decoded it with decodeCCF; however, the resulting file has the same "gap" type codes I got using the learning function.
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those Gap decodes just mean DecodeIR.dll is totally confused. This protocol is quite different from typical and I haven't ever researched it to add to DecodeIR.

I don't know if anyone has ever researched it to make JP1 upgrades.

I doubt I'll have time in the next few days. Usually Jon researches this sort of thing, but he's away.

Meanwhile, can you clarify which original remote it is. Is it the remote described in this PDF?
http://www.escient.com/supportdocuments/SuppDoc_FireBallRemoteControlGuide.pdf
Or is it the wireless keyboard from that PDF? Or something else entirely.

There are many other documents on that site about the remote control, and hints that somewhere in those documents they give the technical details of their remote control protocol. But navigating that site isn't obvious and in a few quick tries I didn't find the technical IR data.

BTW, do the learned signals in the 9910 work?
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tcook2727



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is the remote shown in the PDF, not the keyboard. Escient does have some CCF, MXF and other files on the site for other remotes, such as the Pronto, but I'm not sure if those would be of any use. They are in the "integration" section here: http://www.escient.com/support.html

Lastly, the learned signals work fine with the 9910.

Thanks
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fixed your link, and here's a link to the CCF file for those that are interested.

I've taken a look at the protocol itself and it's certainly an interesting one. There are 16 different burst pairs (and that's not including the lead-in and lead-out pairs), so re-creating the signal will be interesting.

However, the pairs are used logically so it's by no means impossible.

The signal consists of two 8-pair strings, where the first 8-pair string is the same for all the signals, so I'm assuming this is the "device code".

There are 2 buttons which have slightly different signals (those being I-Radio and Music). Leaving those 2 buttons aside for now, the format of the second 8-pair string is as follows:

First, I converted all 16 pairs into a 1-byte hex code. Looking at the Pronto hex, pairs with an off time of 001F became a '0', pairs with an off time of 0024 became a '1', etc in approximately 0004 increments up to 006F which became an 'F'.

This results in an 8 nibble (4 byte) hex code, where the 2 least significant nibbles are the OBC in MSB format. The next four nibbles are always zero. The next nibble is a checksum. In Excel, where the 8-nibble hex string is in C2, the formula to generate the checksum is as follows:

=DEC2HEX(MOD(32-(HEX2DEC(MID(C2,8,1))+HEX2DEC(MID(C2,7,1))),16),1)

Basically, you convert the high and low nibbles of the OBC to decimal and add them together, then complement them and convert the result to hex.

Now for the two buttons that act differently. Each of these buttons sends one iteration of a legal signal as described above, then it repeats another signal which has the same OBC but the MSB of the checksum nibble has been toggled, as has the MSB of the 2 bytes of zeroes that constitute the middle 4 nibbles.

It's usually alot less confusing to actually see the data itself, se here it is: FCS-Fireball.xls
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tcook2727



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please understand that I am very new to this so I need a little extra help to take this to the next step of getting the info into KM.

I am completely amazed at how much time you guys are willing to spend helping folks such as myself and with such promptness. I am grateful.

Thanks,

Terry
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry, at this point there is absolutely nothing that you are supposed to be doing. One of us is going to have to write a completely new executor to generate these signals, as we've never seen signals like them before.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Terry,
I just looked at the remote in that PDF file and it's a JP1-compatible UEI Cat48, is this really the remote that you have? If so, please post a download of the memory contents as we can easily adapt this to work in your URC-9910.
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damir



Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Posts: 100
Location: Croatia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
One of us is going to have to write a completely new executor to generate these signals, as we've never seen signals like them before.

It is UEI executor 016C

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/3.%20Device%20Codes/Satellite/DreamboxDM7000.txt
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-prontong/thread.cgi?3492
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tcook2727



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Hey Terry,
I just looked at the remote in that PDF file and it's a JP1-compatible UEI Cat48, is this really the remote that you have? If so, please post a download of the memory contents as we can easily adapt this to work in your URC-9910.


Yep, that's the one I have. It never crossed my mind that it might be JP1 compatible. I will try to download the memory tonight. Thanks
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good catch Damir, the Pronto code in that post certainly does look similar to the code I got from the Fireball CCF. I'll try testing it this evening.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I compared the Dreambox pronto hex to the Fireball pronto hex and they're definitely the same protocol, but they do use different device codes and they use a different variable byte for the OBC, but none the less, the Dreambox executor should work.

I have created an upgrade based on that for you to try:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/Fireball.txt
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tcook2727



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I have created an upgrade based on that for you to try:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/Fireball.txt


Rob,

Unfortunately, this upgrade you created does not work. I did however, get a memory dump of the Fireball remote into IR since it is JP1 compatible. It just has the raw data, but maybe it's helpful. Here's the file:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/Fireball%20IR%20Dump.IR

Thanks
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this upgrade...

Upgrade Code 0 = 8C 80 (Video Acc/1152) Fireball (KM v8.30)
6C 00 FE FC FE F1 0A 0F 44 0F 00 00 00 01 00 02
00 03 00 04 00 05 00 06 00 07 00 08 00 09 00 0A
00 0B 00 0C 00 0D 00 0E 00 0F 00 11 00 1B 00 16
00 17 00 18 00 19 00 1A 00 1C 00 14 00 2B 00 29
00 13 00 21 00 25 00 20 00 22 00 24 00 23 00 10
00 12
End

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 6C (S3C8+) Custom Protocol for Video Acc/1152 Fireball (KM v8.30)
43 8B 42 8B 05 00 00 6A 01 67 E4 07 09 E4 08 0A
E4 03 07 E4 04 08 F0 08 56 08 0F F6 FF 90 F6 FF
2F FB 0B 46 08 80 F6 FF 90 F6 FF 2F 7B FB AF 28
03 F6 FF 68 28 04 F6 FF 68 28 05 F6 FF 68 28 06
F6 FF 88 C6 F8 19 64 F6 01 58 28 07 F6 FF 68 28
08 F6 FF 68 28 09 F6 FF 68 28 0A F6 FF 88 C6 F8
9B 47 F6 01 58 8D 01 0A 48 C2 F0 C2 F6 FF 74 28
C4 8D FF 74 1C 12 F6 01 4C 56 C2 0F 6B 09 C6 F8
00 3F F6 01 58 2A F7 AF F6 FF 68 1C 12 8D 01 4C
08 07 F0 C0 18 08 F6 FF B0 18 09 F6 FF B0 18 0A
F6 FF B0 60 C0 0E 56 C0 0F 56 07 F0 44 C0 07 AF
28 C1 F0 C1 02 12 02 01 AF
End

I noticed that there are 3 upgrades in the remote dump you posted, so if you want to convert this upgrade to either of the others, just change the fixed data. Here's the list...

OEM/0051 = "0B 0F 44 0E"
OEM/0052 = "0A 0F 44 0F"
OEM/0053 = "08 0F 44 10"
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tcook2727



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'll try this tonight. To do this, do I just create a new device and protocol in IR.exe and paste this code there? Also, does it make a difference if I change the device type from VIDACC to CD?

Finally, I'm not sure what the "upgrades" are that you refer to. Would these be learned signals or codes to control other devices that I may have programmed into the remote?

Thanks

Terry
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tcook2727 wrote:
Ok, I'll try this tonight. To do this, do I just create a new device and protocol in IR.exe and paste this code there?

Exactly, just what you did last time.

tcook2727 wrote:
Also, does it make a difference if I change the device type from VIDACC to CD?

If you do that in IR, the button mapping will be messed up. Let's just confirm that the code works first. Once you've confirmed that it works, you can download the Fireball file that I linked to earlier (and have since updated) and change the device mode in KM. Just FYI, VIDACC/1152 is the official UEI code number for this setup code.

tcook2727 wrote:
Finally, I'm not sure what the "upgrades" are that you refer to. Would these be learned signals or codes to control other devices that I may have programmed into the remote?

The EEPROM dump that you posted from your Fireball remote contained three Fireball upgrades, named 0051, 0052 and 0053. The signals you learned correspond to the 0052 code. I don't know what the other two codes do, if anything, but if you want to change the upgrade I posted so that it will control the other two devices, you would just need to change the fixed data to the code I posted.

If that's still not clear, don't worry about it, just test the Fireball code and if it works, be happy. If at a later point you come to realise that there are things you could control with the Fireball remote that you can't control with your 9910, let us know and I'll explain it further at that time.
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