JP1 Remotes

I had to put an old VCR into service and I am stuck for one code.

1. Device: Snayo VCR VHR 9413A
2. Type of device: Video Cassette Recorder
3. Remote model: 15-2116
4. JP1 user? Yes
5. Still have original remote? No
6. Checked Yahoo file section? Yes
7. Checked Pronto file section (at R/C)? Yes, but it is part of a system file for a TS 1000 and does not have the button I need. I was not able to decode because the decoder software does not work on my PC.

This VCR has not been used for a few years, I looked everywhere and could not find the orginal remote. After having no luck finding any JP1 codes, I started to go the codes on the 15-2116 and guess what? The VCR Code 0104 does everything I need with one exception. I cant change the tape speed. There is no place to set this on the VCR either.

Also, how can I see in KM what is in the IR raw data for this code. I know this basic but I am having a bit of trouble here. If anyone can tell me how to add the taoe speed select (SP LP EP) to the standard 0104 VCR code I would appreciate it.

Dan

According to this, it's EFC=230.

You'll find the SP/LP code in the VCR/0104 advanced code list.

Thanks, Here is what I did. In IR I went to the key moves tab and did an add.

Bound device = VCR
Bound Key = move
Device Button = VCR
Device Type = VCR
Setup Code = 0104
Hex Cmd = $85
EFC or Key Name = 230

I uploaded to the remote and it does not work. What did I do wrong?

Dan

IR.exe only lets you enter either a hex code OR an EFC, you can't enter both at the same time, as your post implies.

The correct way to do it is to check the "EFC" radio button, then enter 230

Since 85 is the right hex for EFC 230, I don't think Dan got that part wrong. His (very good) details show us the KeyMove that he created rather than exactly what he entered to create it.

I have 8 files from various VCRs that are consistent with VCR/0104. Four of those files list the tape speed command as 230 and the other four don't list it. In other words I can't find any other EFC for tape speed.

I don't know why it didn't work for Dan.

I should have said that, sorry. I was providing the values that are in the columns accross the page under the key moves tab. I only have this one button listed there. When I did the Add I just did like you said and selected EFC and IR provided the HEX code.

Is 230 EFC known in the remote as sent from the factory, or do I have to add it with KM? If all of the EFCs are there can I put the list of advanced EFC codes in a spreadshet, sort, elimiate the ones that are known and try the remaining one by one? A quick look shows 066 thur 099 are not listed, should I try the missing ones as well?

I appreciate everyones help and I would like to learn how to do this but I am not very proficient and need to be kind of lead by the hand, so ot speak.

PS If I need to update the number in my sig, just let me know

Dan

Digital Dan wrote: Is 230 EFC known in the remote as sent from the factory, or do I have to add it with KM?

All the remotes follow a standard formula for translating an EFC number into a "hex command". All 256 possible EFCs are covered by that formula.

The Protocol used by VCR/0104 has a formula which translates any one of the 256 hex commands into an IR signal. It doesn't matter whether that hex command is preassigned to any key by that setup code.

So, to the extent that your question means anything at all, the answer is that 230 and all other EFCs are known to the remote as sent from the factory.

Digital Dan wrote: If all of the EFCs are there can I put the list of advanced EFC codes in a spreadshet, sort, elimiate the ones that are known and try the remaining one by one?

Every number from 000 through 255 is a valid EFC. The remote also lets you use numbers 256 through 999 as EFCs and it automatically subtracts 256, 512 or 768 in order to reduce the number you use into the range 000 through 255.

The EFC are effectively an encription of the OBC numbers. In typical devices only a fraction of the range of OBC numbers is used. So in searching for a missing code it is typically useful to set up a KM upgrade in OBC sequence and trying the obvious gaps in that dense collection before trying the large empty ranges of codes. That approach doesn't work with EFC numbers because the EFC formula scrambles the pattern of OBC numbers.

In this particular device, that method wouldn't work even in OBC sequence. The ordinary commands (digits, play, rew, etc.) are all clustered together in a typical dense set of OBC numbers. But the special commands (SP/LP, Auto_prog, Blank_search, etc.) are scattered all over the range of 256 possible OBC numbers.

If you want to try each missing EFC you'll be trying most of the 256 possible ones.

I still think it's more likely 230 is correct and you somehow tested it wrong.

"I still think it's more likely 230 is correct and you somehow tested it wrong."

What is the correct way to test it?

"So in searching for a missing code it is typically useful to set up a KM upgrade in OBC sequence and trying the obvious gaps in that dense collection before trying the large empty ranges of codes"

What procedure would I need to do this?

Just to do a test I changed the EFC on the bound key (move) to 116. accordung to the list this is play. After uploading to the remote the move button did work as a "play" button. I changed the 116 back to 230 and it still does not work.

Digital Dan wrote: "So in searching for a missing code it is typically useful to set up a KM upgrade in OBC sequence and trying the obvious gaps in that dense collection before trying the large empty ranges of codes"

What procedure would I need to do this?

I'm not a KM expert (I use RM more) but here is what I just tried:

1) I selected and downloaded a similar upgrade file from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files ... Codes/VCR/
I selected the Sanyo_VCR_VHR-778.txt one.

2) I loaded it in KM.

3) On the functions tab, normally I would click SwapEFC/OBC once to switch to OBC mode. But because of the unusual way eject was defined one swap didn't get the desired result. For reasons I half understand, three presses of that button got the OBCs cleanly into column B.

4) Since I don't know how to sort in KM, I created a blank workbook/worksheet in the same Excel session and selected and copied the columns A and B rows 2 through last used (40) from KM to the blank sheet. I always use "paste special / values" rather than ordinary paste for such copies because I never remember when it's safe to use ordinary paste.

5) In the extra sheet I did a data/sort by obc and then copy / paste back to KM (again using "paste special /values")

6) Now I have an upgrade sorted by OBC to see whether any gaps in the OBC list suggest codes that are more worth trying than typical codes.

I expect some KM or Excel expert can tell us how to eliminate many of those steps to get to the same result.

Digital Dan wrote: Just to do a test I changed the EFC on the bound key (move) to 116. accordung to the list this is play. After uploading to the remote the move button did work as a "play" button. I changed the 116 back to 230 and it still does not work.

Good test!
That really cuts out all the doubt about process issues. So now I'm convinced you really tested the intended EFC (230) in the right setup code VCR/0104, etc.

I once confused myself testing an SP/SLP function in a VCR by forgetting which conditions were necessary for that VCR to pay attention to that command. While I want to set the default the VCR will use for all recording (until the next power fail), that VCR thought the command was primarily for immediate use and setting the default was a trivial side effect. As a result it ignored the command because there happened to be a write protected tape present. It needed a write enabled tape present and stopped or it would ignore the command.

The 'Code List' sheet in KM will also show all unassigned EFC/OBC values based on the current upgrade.

Digital Dan wrote:Is 230 EFC known in the remote as sent from the factory, or do I have to add it with KM? If all of the EFCs are there can I put the list of advanced EFC codes in a spreadshet, sort, elimiate the ones that are known and try the remaining one by one?

I think John pretty much covered the answer to this question, but I've seen this sort of question before, so here's a little bit more just in case it helps.

Protocols don't "know" EFC codes, they are just little pieces of computer code that know what to do with values that are thrown at them. Think of it like entering a formula into an Excel spreadsheet where it multiplies the value entered into cell A1 by 2, so if you enter 4 into cell A1, you get 8 in the cell you just programmed. Would you say that this formula "knows" the 4 code? Well, it does once you enter it. It's the same way with protocols, if you enter EFC 230, it knows it, even if it's never seen that EFC before in any built in setup code.

I thik we've established that you did program the code correctly, but one thing you can try if you're even unsure of the way you programmed it using JP1 tools, is to do it manually on the remote itself, ie...

1) Tap the device button (if it's not already active)
2) Hold SETUP, 2 flashes
3) Type 994, 2 flashes
4) Tap the setup button (don't hold it)
5) Type the EFC code (ie, 230)
6) Tap the button being programmed, 2 flashes

You can also test an EFC without programming it to a device button, like this...

1) Tap the device button (if it's not already active)
2) Tap SETUP (don't hold it)
3) Type the EFC code (holding the last digit if you want to simulate holding the original button).

If you don't have a PC handy and you want to go fishing for secret codes, this last method is an easy way to whip through all 256 codes to see what you might find. This is known as the "SETUP+nnn" method.

Using JP1 tools, a better idea is to use RM or KM to create dummy upgrades where each button is programmed with an unacounted for EFC (or OBC) code.

There isn't a way to sort the codes into OBC or EFC order in KM, so it is a good idea to use cut & paste if you want to identify the gaps, etc but you shoudl also check out the Code List sheet in KM because it lists all 256 EFC, in either OBC or EFC order, and it shows you all the gaps. You could print out this list if you want to use the "SETUP+nnn" method.

Digital Dan wrote:PS If I need to update the number in my sig, just let me know

I just checked over at Yahoo, and the number's up to 20,026!