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any knowledge of the RCA VH920 a/v switch programming
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wrdavis



Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 10:29 pm    Post subject: any knowledge of the RCA VH920 a/v switch programming Reply with quote

I downloaded the codes and modified them to do my bidding with an URC-8810. Then built the cable and hooked it all up. Everything seems to work just as described. Programmed the 8810 to operate a Pansat 2500A satellite receiver and confirmed all buttons do the functions desired.

But that RCA VH920 a/v switch seems wierd. The only way I could get the 8810 to convince the a/v switch to select the Pansat on AUX was to program the a/v switch with the Pansat connected to the VCR inputs, and then press SELECT. Then pressing AUX on the 8810 to control the Pansat. I tried having inputs on AUX2 and never could get that to work. AUX1 is on the front and I don't want cables running there. But the above process works well enough. The VH920 has no remote, just a learn mode to decide what remote is hitting it and then connecting to the correct source.

The problem vexing me is that the Apex 1110 DVD on DVD inputs to the a/v switch just will not do the selection. Tried the same two button sequence ( DVD-SELECT) other choices DVD-PLAY, DVD-POWER, DVD-VOLUME. None work.

I have two of these RCA VH920 switches and both work the same, so seems unlikely to be some glitch in the unit. Also I have a RCA DTV receiver on Satellite IN on the a/v switch and that works fine by pressing SAT-SELECT. Naturally the RCA DTV multifunction remote will do everything correctly with the switch. So I'm wondering if anyone knows about these a/v switches and their internal requirements and what I might do to keep it happy?
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an upgrade for that exact model by Don Miller, although not active recently, he was one of the original JP1 experts.

The important information is that these units can either use the commands in Don's upgrade (that it does by default), or you can learn commands to them. The only problem is the learned commands are erased after a power failure.

So the bottom line is unplug the units overnight. Then try the commands in Don's file. Use them because in the event of a power failure they revert to those commands anyway.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can train the VH920 to respond to existing signals by using learning, or you can use the upgrade in the file section, which is more reliable. HOWEVER, the upgrade only works on the first 4 inputs, it doesn't work on the two AUX inputs.
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob, I may have the answer for the other commands. I didn't open Don's file late last night but I had previously found a ccf file that had seven commands. The first six are labeled for that persons equipment noted below so I don't know what order they are in and the last is OFF.

What I hadn't seen before that ccf file is that some of the inputs are apparently discrete OFF commands. The final is the discrete off for the RCA TV so it all kind of makes sense. Here they are:

RCA:07:59 EFC=219 (aka SAT/0392) AUX2
RCA:07:58 EFC=227 (aka SAT/0392) Echo
RCA:15:58 EFC=227 (aka TV/0047) DVD
RCA:14:59 EFC=219 (aka VCR/0060) Exvu
RCA:14:58 EFC=227 (aka VCR/0060) CPU
RCA:05:59 EFC=219 (aka DVD/522) AUX 1
RCA:15:59 EFC=219 (aka TV/0047) OFF
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zaphod7501



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
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Location: Peoria Illinois

                    
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plus the VH920 does a terrible job of learning and does not differentiate well between devices of non-RCA brands (Sony in my case) . My Sony VCRs (type 1,2,3) and DVD , as well as TV and stereo are all learned as the same device making switching impossible. Since RM doesn't support the RCA protocol used in the suggested upgrade I haven't been able to figue out how to use it yet myself. (but I haven't tried since I've learned a little more about using the tools here)

The VH920 IR pickup is also easily swamped by ambient light , making reception poor. I like the VH914 (4 way) A/V switch much better. At least these have been my experiences with my VH920.

(just saw Jon's response while I was typing and I will check those out myself)
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaphod7501 wrote:
Since RM doesn't support the RCA protocol used in the suggested upgrade I haven't been able to figue out how to use it yet myself. (but I haven't tried since I've learned a little more about using the tools here) ... (just saw Jon's response while I was typing and I will check those out myself)


I'll add support to RM in the form of a protocols.ini entry for that RCA protocol variant later today. IIRC, that protocol adds extra repeats in a macro so you get better recognition.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon_armstrong wrote:
that protocol adds extra repeats in a macro so you get better recognition.


I assume it adds extra repeats even outside of a macro. That RCA switch expects a fairly long press, IIRC longer than a typical keypress. So the protocol should force the duration rather than expect the user to do a long press.

It also isn't really a question of "better recognition". Some devices TEND to miss the first frame or two, so sending more gives better recognition. But my understanding is that this device REQUIRES a longer signal, so without the extra duration you get no recognition.

I think I remember someone experimenting and discovering that there is no advantage to going much longer than the minimum that works. But I don't recall how many frames was the minimum, nor what he said about whether 1 or 2 frames ove minimum was useful.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the commands from Don's file...

RCA:05:58 EFC=227 (aka DVD/0522) DVD
RCA:07:58 EFC=227 (aka SAT/0392) SAT
RCA:13:58 EFC=227 (aka VCR/0202) LD
RCA:14:58 EFC=227 (aka VCR/0060) VCR
RCA:15:59 EFC=219 (aka TV /0047) OFF

and these are the additional commands that you posted...

RCA:05:59 EFC=219 (aka DVD/0522) AUX1
RCA:07:59 EFC=219 (aka SAT/0392) AUX2
RCA:14:59 EFC=219 (aka VCR/0060) Exvu

I don't think we ever thought to try the discrete off code as an input select code. If nobody else verifies whether these codes work or not, I'll see if I can find my old VH920 and try them on it.
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wrdavis



Joined: 15 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I would be using this a/v setup both at home and in the RV while traveling, having the VH920 use the default power on reset values is necessary. I don't have MS Excel and need to do this process with RM, if possible.

Sounds like what I need to do is:
1. Make 3 new buttons in RM for the SAT, DVD, & VCR selector buttons on my 8810. Sounds tricky here; the code sent out the IR LED needs to tell the VH920 the 8810 is really a RCA DTV, DVD or VCR remote, but still needs to tell the internal 8810 to act like an APEX or PANSAT. Can that even be done?
2. Be in Device Combiner mode, so I can modify the duration to 5 or greater.
3. Put in EFC codes for these buttons. Not to sure here. Tried the values listed on the ccf (RCA:07:59 EFC=219....etc) and none did anything. Suspect I'm wrong at this step. Don't see how the same EFC code "219" or "227" would make the different buttons respond differently. Also tried using the 4 digit device codes here, but program seems to modify the numbers in a manner I don't understand.
4. Then map these buttons to the appropiate button on the 8810. Think I know this step by now.
5. Copy the output codes from the two sections of the oputput and paste them in the IR program under DEVICES & PROTOCOLS
6. UPLOAD to the Remote and try it.

Not at all sure how the file from Don miller is used. Maybe it shortcuts this process? Also is there some description of the numbers after RCA above. ie :07:59 somewhere? Are those the actual switch codes for on-off or whatever? Is that in hex or dec?

Of course I could just rubberband the second RCA remote onto the bottom of the 8810 and flip it over as required. But that's way too easy.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrdavis wrote:
Since I would be using this a/v setup both at home and in the RV while traveling, having the VH920 use the default power on reset values is necessary. I don't have MS Excel and need to do this process with RM, if possible.

That's not a problem, RM can open KM files.

wrdavis wrote:
Not at all sure how the file from Don miller is used. Maybe it shortcuts this process?

Open his file using RM, then follow the RM guide.

wrdavis wrote:
Also is there some description of the numbers after RCA above. ie :07:59 somewhere?

OK, let's take the following line as an example...
RCA:05:58 EFC=227 (aka DVD/0522) DVD

This means:
Protocol = RCA
Device Code = 5
OBC = 58
EFC = 227

matching built in setup code = DVD/0522

To verify if this code is correct, you could program DVD/0522 to the DVD button on your remote, then test EFC 227 to see if it selects the DVD input. You test an EFC (using the SETUP+nnn method) like this...

1) Program DVD/0522 to the DVD device button
2) Press and release the DVD button
3) Press and release the SET button
4) Type 227 (and hold the final digit)

If you wanted to create an upgrade from scratch using the codes previously posted, you would open RM or KM, then select the "RCA Combo" protocol. This would allow you to define each function using different device codes. But this upgrade would probably not work with macros, that's why the version that's used in Don's file was created. This version sends out a minimum of 5 or so repeats of the signal, which is long enough to make sure the VH920 responds.

wrdavis wrote:
Sounds like what I need to do is:
1. Make 3 new buttons in RM for the SAT, DVD, & VCR selector buttons on my 8810. Sounds tricky here; the code sent out the IR LED needs to tell the VH920 the 8810 is really a RCA DTV, DVD or VCR remote, but still needs to tell the internal 8810 to act like an APEX or PANSAT. Can that even be done?
2. Be in Device Combiner mode, so I can modify the duration to 5 or greater.
3. Put in EFC codes for these buttons. Not to sure here. Tried the values listed on the ccf (RCA:07:59 EFC=219....etc) and none did anything. Suspect I'm wrong at this step. Don't see how the same EFC code "219" or "227" would make the different buttons respond differently. Also tried using the 4 digit device codes here, but program seems to modify the numbers in a manner I don't understand.

Rather than try and dissect this line by line, let's just say it's pretty much all wrong.
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gfb107
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that right now RM doesn't support the RCA Combo protocol w/ Duration, so it can't open Don's upgrade file.

It should be possible to create an upgrade using Device Combiner that does the job, and that would work with RM. Try this.

Hopefully Jon will have a protocols.ini entry for us by the end of the day, and we won't have to use DC.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll make a version of the file later (unless someone else beats me to it) that uses the regular RCA Combo, so that should be useable in RM.
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jon_armstrong
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For two reasons I can't do a fix to RM. I'm running late and KM actually tweaks a couple of bytes in the Protocol itself and I don't think we can do that in protocols.ini so I just added the new commands in KM and here are the device and protocol upgrades for the 8811. (Video Accesory is a cable device type)


Upgrade Code 0 = 3B 98 (Video Acc/0920) VH920 RCA Video Selector Modified (KM v8.25)
43 00 81 FF 3B 7F 3A 5F 3A DF 3A EF 3A 5F 3B 7F
3B EF 3B 00 00 00 00
End

Upgrade Protocol 0 = 01 43 (S3C8+) RCA Combo (w/Duration) (KM v8.25)
28 60 02 8B 12 95 45 04 08 00 FA 03 D4 00 FA 01
E0 0F 8C 07 D0 07 BC 20 10 00 11 E6 0D 05 8D 01
46
End


I put the various commands on the numeral keys:

0 Off
1 Sat
2 DVD
3 Laserdisk
4 VCR
5 Aux1
6 Aux2
7 Alternate Input?

Zap, I think you have an 8810/11 as well right? So at least you guys can test this.
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wrdavis



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a nose to nose learning from the RCA DTV remote to the 8810.

The codes were:
RCA:05:58 EFC=227 (aka DVD/0522) DVD
RCA:07:58 EFC=227 (aka SAT/0392) SAT
RCA:13:58 EFC=227 (aka VCR/0202) LD
RCA:14:58 EFC=227 (aka VCR/0060) VCR

After the learning, the 8810 would flip the input sources just like the RCA.
For now I just taught the different keys from the RCA unto the L1 to L4 in each of the three conditions I have, SAT, AUX & DVD. So in a way the L1-L4 keys act like a dedicated VH920 remote that doesn't even exist otherwise.

Had an opps somehow and posted another question twice about having data go from IR to RM.
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zaphod7501



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon , I tried your upgrade and protocol on my 8810 and it pretty much works. The 2 (for DVD) is a little touchy(duration ?). 5,6,7. (Aux1 Aux2 Alt) don't do anything but I think that's normal because the manual for the VH920 says Aux1 and 2 must be learned and have no defaults . If you look at the functions , I think the originator of the CCF did use it as holder for his discrete "OFF" commands. It just happens that a RCA TV "OFF" also turns off the A/V switch too.

Greg , your RM file has much better response for the DVD entry , with the same results on 5,6 and 7. I was able to load it on both my 8810 and 6131.

If you think about it the action by remote control is odd. Pressing selection buttons on the unit only works after you turn it on with the power button. Remote control seems to be by all discrete commands (doesn't have to be "on" first). This could be why it requires longer commands -- first "turn on" then "select input" or something like that.
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