JP1 Remotes

eadries · Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 2

I'm not sure if your problem is/was the same as mine, but I fixed mine by adding the 2 NOPS as was posted earlier in this thread (Had to do some searching in other posts and D/L some apps, but it worked) Very Happy

. If your want a "Virgin" 8810w IR file with the modified v3.1 Extender email me. The 8810w and 8811 are the same remote, except the 8810w is ONLY sold at Wal-Mart.

Ed

[quote="tau166"]

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

Has any more work been done on this problem?

I have one 8810W that exhibits this same extremely annoying behavior (i.e. ext 3.1 won't work on it) and a different one that works perfectly every time.

I can also verify that this problem *is* voltage related.

If I do the "paper clip" trick and use only three batteries, everything works perfectly on this remote.

Also, after checking the specs on the EEPROM I've noticed the following:
the Atmel 24C16 is rated for a nominal operating voltage of 5.5V with a maximum of 6.25V for "normal operation" and an absolute maximum of 7V vs GND before damage occurs.

Well, after testing a stack of alkaline batteries they seem to range in voltage from 1.58V on the low end to 1.66V on the high end. The average tends to be about 1.62V on most I've tried. Which means that 1.62 x 4 batteries equals around 6.5V -- and even the weak ones are outputting 6.3V or so.

Basically, unless there is a resistor or something that I don't see dropping the voltage to the EE by a bit, then the Atmel is actually running OUT OF SPEC pretty much all the time on these remotes....

Comments?

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

After a bit more probing & research....

It looks like the 8810W is wired similarly to the RS2116, etc.
Which means there is a single diode drop in the VDD going to the Atmel EE -- so the voltage is reduced somewhat before it reaches it.

I took the remote apart and measured it at the pin and I'm seeing a voltage of about 6.02V -- which is what I would expect.

This is still within spec for the Atmel part but only marginally -- and outside its recommended nominal range (which is 5.5V).

However, this may not necessarily be the real problem -- one thing I have noticed is that when programming the remote via JP1 the LED *never* comes on when the cable is connected. So it may be more of a pull down related problem.

I wonder if their may be different steppings of the micro involved?
Or perhaps different resistor values somewhere on the PCB?

I need to compare it to my working unit -- but I'm a bit loathe to take it apart for fear of screwing it up (which would not make my wife happy).

Does anyone out there already have hires pics of the PCB of an 8810w that works with extender 3.1? And when I say hires, I mean hires enough that I can read the values on the SMD resistors?

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

Regardless of what the real cause is -- and I still am curious as to whether or not there may be some component values different and/or different steppings of the micro (or different revision or manuf EE's) -- I've at least verified the following:

On my remote at least, changing over to 4 rechargables that output about 1.24V average -- which puts Vdd at the EE (measured) at 4.51V -- makes everything work. In this setup, the remote resets properly and functions ok even with the JP1 cable connected. However, the backlight is noticably dimmer and I question whether other parts may be running a bit under-powered.

Additionally, physically wedging a small SMD diode between one of the batteries and the connector served to drop my measured voltage down to about 5.4V, which also works.

And, finally, I just got through patching the extender as suggested in the thread (added two NOPS after the STOP) and that works as well -- though the remote still doesn't reset properly until I remove the JP1 cable.

Basically, this is really sounding like either a bad or different component value somewhere thats screwing things up -- i.e. like a pull-up resistor value that got subbed/changed somewhere along the way.

I'd really like to understand WHY this problem occurs and what the real cause of it is, but for now, the NOP code seems the easiest fix -- if it works reliably ALL the time.

Otherwise, I may just scratch a gap in the voltage trace on the PCB and tack a diode across it -- the bad point of which is that then I would HAVE to use alkaline batteries in the remote because with rechargables the voltage would be down in the 3.9V range.

I anyone else has ideas on this please let me know....

digitize · Joined: 07 Aug 2003 Posts: 26

I had a 8810W working that suddenly went flakey with the 3.1 extender. I tried many times to redownload the extender from IR hoping so make it more stable but had no success. I have recently used the modified version with the 2 NOPs and that seemed to fix the problem. I have it running solid for at least 3 weeks.

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

>> Why does the backlight flicker with extender3 active? Is that a feature?

Noticing another comment, I tried out the backlight on mine....

Guess what, with the extender, the backlight flickers and won't (usually) stay on.

This is on the remote that has the crashing extender problem (which is now working ok otherwise following the NOP fix).

On my other 8810w the backlight works fine with the extender.

One other thing I noticed -- the backlight is noticable BRIGHTER on the remote that has all the problems.....

I also tried the rechargeable batteries in the "bad" remote and the backlight won't stay on with them in it when running the extender either.

Something here is definitely weird....

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

Just got finished looking at the code a bit and it appears that the loop used for controlling the back light display time makes use of the IDLE command... which is one of the commands that the S3C80 guide recommends sticking NOPs after.

Also, doesn't the programming guide recommend 3 NOP's after both STOP and IDLE?

I'm seriously thinking that in newer revisions of the micro these NOP's may be a LOT more important than they were in past versions.

I'll patch the code and see if it solves the backlight problem and then post my results later today.

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

Following the programming guides I changed it to 3 NOP's after the STOP and 3 NOP's after the IDLE.

Guess what?

The extender works and the backlight no longer flickers.

bobbyt8888 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 26

I added the 3 NOPs after the STOP and IDLE instructions, rebuilt the extender and my 8810w works now. Thanks for the info.

However, the backlight timer setting seems to be ineffective. The default value of 111 keeps the light on for about 12 seconds (not 14.6 by calculation) Entering a value of 15 should yield a time of about 2 seconds and it remains set at 12 seconds.

It's not a big deal, I can do without the backlight, but I would like to use this timer to adjust the shift period.

Thanks again.

johnsfine · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject:

Did you adjust the RDF file to reflect the new address of that timer, as it was changed by adding NOPs?

bobbyt8888 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 26

No I didn't -- that's a good point. It will take me a little while to dig into that unless you know where to change the address in the RDF file.

johnsfine · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject:

You have to fix all the "patch" items.

If the source code is still similar to my version, and the .bat file for assembling it is still similar, then executing that .bat file creates a .lst file.

If you search the .lst file for patch you'll find lines like
(07B7) timeout_patch = $$-1
or
(07E4) Shift_Key_patch = $$-1

Each of those corresponds to an item in the RDF, such as
Backlight timer=$7B7.7.8.0.0
or
Shift Button Keycode=$7E4.7.8.2.0

bobbyt8888 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 26

Thanks. That was it.

The only one that I had to change was the backlight timer address to from &7B7 to $7B1.

Are comments allowed in the RDF file so I can document it?

mdburkey · Joined: 27 Nov 2003 Posts: 29

I guess I need to do the same -- though I hadn't noticed the difference in the timing (hadn't looked that closely).

Since this seems to be the correct fix for these models of 8810, would't it be wise for someone to do a "release" of this version of the extender, take ownership of it and post it (along with the corrected RDF's) over in the files section?

If so, who wants to do it?

bobbyt8888 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 26

I have all of 5 days experience in playing with these remotes, so I hesitate to post my solution without one of the resident experts verifying its stability.

The backlight, while I can now program its duration, at times gets stuck in a repeating loop which I can stop by turning the backlight off. By this I mean it lights for 2 seconds, briefly goes off (100 ms) and then lights for another 2 secs, etc.....

Also, I'm having a problem getting the ToadTog to work, though I suspect that this is cockpit error.

I have modified the RDF file and would like to rename it to say, 6_80_2x3.01 (6012 x3.01_2K).rdf. Does anyone know how and when IR.exe loads the RDF file and how to make sure the correct RDF is loaded?