JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Decoding Minolta IR Remote
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - General Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
aberguerand
Advanced Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:39 pm    Post subject: Decoding Minolta IR Remote Reply with quote

To make a long story short : I am looking for the IR remote codes of my Minolta DImage camera. It is a two buttons remote, that I do not posess. I have found the learned codes at remotecentral in a file for MX700 remotes.
According to instructions found on the IRClone site, I have converted the MX700 learned codes to Pronto format.

Unfortunately, these codes do not seem to be well decoded by DecodeIR.dll.

Here are the results from ccf2efc :

DEVICE(0000375B) "Minolta"
panel "Remote"
"Now" "Learned" (Gap-477-1119-32?):52.202:1 {34.CA.41.1}
freq=37.7KHz
0000 006E 0000 0022 008F 0048 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0036 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0036 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0012 0168

"2 sec" "Learned" (Gap-504-1098-32?):52.202:0 {34.CA.41.0}
freq=37.7KHz
0000 006E 0000 0022 0090 0047 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0035 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0035 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0011 0013 0167

Does anybody have an idea on how to use these signals in my JP1 remote ?

Alain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnsfine
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is no protocol for this yet, so it would need Protocol builder.

It makes sense as three 8-bit bytes of fixed data (with values 52,202 and 65) and one 8-bit byte of variable data (value 1 for "now" and 0 for "2 sec").

The '0' bit is a burst of +478,-478.
The '1' bit is a burst of +478,-1433.
The "lead in" is a burst of +3821,-1911.

I think the rest of this in PB would be default or obvious. If that's too hard, ask and someone who knows PB will help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aberguerand
Advanced Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

thanks for the hints on Protocol Builder. I successfully built the corresponding protocol. The protocol and the device upgrade have been uploaded in the file area of the JP1 group.

The protocol did not work a the first try. I had to analyse the generated signal by learning it with another remote. It happened that the signal was sent in MSB order, while I had assumed LSB. I did not find how to change it from MSB to LSB, neither in PB nor in KM. So I just redefined the fixed bytes with their values reversed and had to live with the fact that the two codes for the device would have hex values $00 and $80 instead of $00 and $01. Is there something I missed with that MSB <-> LSB issue ?

Alain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnsfine
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Except in some secondary aspects of combo protocols, PB doesn't get involved at all in the LSB vs. MSB question.

Hex commands are always MSB.

In most protocols, the OBC is LSB, so the translation from OBC to hex command must reverse the bits. KM or RM handle that in protocols where they know the OBC to hex command rules.

For custom protocols, I've never really understood how to tell KM the right OBC to hex command rules. When I do any more custom protocols, I'll use RM instead. RM's protocols.ini file is a simple text file, so when you want to use RM for a custom protocol, you can just create an entry in its protocols.ini file ans specify any translation you like between OBC and hex command.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18553
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
For custom protocols, I've never really understood how to tell KM the right OBC to hex command rules.

When you select "Manual Settings" in KM, a few new seletion boxes appear in the Setup sheet, one of which is labelled "Signal Style" where the choices on the drop down menu are:

LSB-COMP
LSB
MSB-COMP
MSB
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went back to check because John's comments reminded me that, I generally don't use KM's translation when I use PB. Usually, that is because I am creating some signal with a lot of bits and frequently need more than three devices and more than two variable bytes.

To get beyond the three devices you must enter it as hex separatred by spaces. To use more than one variable byte then you can use "byte 2" but the value must be in hex. Reasonably, KM Master doesn't manipulate any bits entered in hex in fixed or variable data regardless of what "signal style" is selected. So far this all seems logical to me. In fact IIRC, I have done 5 variable bytes of data and KM faithfully passed those hex commands through to the device upgrade

The other issue (which has nothing to do with Alain's situation) is fixed or variable data using MSB with less than 8-bit bytes. When you define the width of a fixed or variable command, for example, 7-bits, AFAIK it always uses with the top most 7-bits in hex assuming that hex commands are always MSB. However, I had some dim recollection of MSB not always working correctly using the “signal style” feature.

I just ran a simple test using KM. Using manual settings and "Use OBC", I put 1, 2, and 3 in devices 1, 2, and 3 and OBC’s 1, 2, and 3 for those numerals in the functions tab. In 8-bits going through signal style:

LSB-COMP
LSB
MSB-COMP
MSB

works as expected. But, when I changed the bits/dev and bits/command both to four, then signal style MSB returns (all in hex) fixed data 10, 20, and 30 but 01, 02, 03 for the variable data. I didn't try all the other combinations of bit-widths.

I am not sure that this urgently needs fixing, but it does seem like more people are using PB and I thought I would point it out.
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aberguerand
Advanced Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had noticed the LSB/MSB parameter, but when I changed it, it had no visible effect either on the protocol or the upgrade code. Modifying the "Signal style", "Bits/Dev" or "Bits/Cmd" parameters of "Manual Settings" do not seem to produce any change.

Is this a bug, or are these parameters only applied when a new protocol is pasted ?

Alain
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alain,

I just tried it again in KM Master v7.47 and got the same results as I posted. This time I pasted in a protocol from PB first and then changed the values of signal style and values changed as expected except for the MSB 4-bit case the same as above.

Is it possible when you put the values in from either PB or the functions that you "pasted" values from the other spreadsheets rather than paste special, values? Did you use OBC's?

Could this be the US/European conflicts in Excel for hex2bin, etc.?
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aberguerand
Advanced Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

I am using KM version 7.56, the most recent available one.
I have reloaded the upgrade from a text file, so I do not think there is a problem of incorrectly pasted values. Regarding incompatibilities with my non-english version of Excel, this might be the source, but I do not know where to look for.
What should happen when the value of "Signal style" is changed ? Should the protocol, the upgrade, or both change ?

Alain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Pierson
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 3006
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aberguerand wrote:
What should happen when the value of "Signal style" is changed ? Should the protocol, the upgrade, or both change ?

I just took a quick look at what KM is doing and it appears that only the Fixed Data calculations are affected by the Signal Style setting. There are also errors encountered when Bits/Dev are set greater than 8 using MSB or MSB-Comp.

When I get some free time, I'll have to dig into this a little further.
_________________
Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jon_armstrong
Expert


Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 1238
Location: R.I.P. 3/25/2005

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alain,

When you change signal style the device upgrade will change only.

I'll download v 7.56 to make sure nothing has changed but here is a cell by cell entry of what I did in my simple test:

Setup Tab

C5 > OBC
C8>Manual Settings
C9 >1
C10>2
C11>3
C18> should have the PID from your PB upgrade

Then:
Vary C20 and

C15 "Fixed Data" should change

In the Functions Tab

Set cells C3, C4, and C5 to 1,2,and 3

The hex values in Column F should vary

For example:

80 40 C0 LSB
01 02 03 MSB
_________________
-Jon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aberguerand
Advanced Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon,

what I was doing differently was using EFCs rather than OBCs and directly entering "Raw fixed data" in C12 rather than in device numbers C9 to C11.
Doing it as you indicated works well and the "Signal Style" parameter is correctly applied in the upgrade.

Thanks for the help.

Alain (now trying to do the same thing in RM's protocol.ini...)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eiffel



Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 23
Location: MD

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alain,

I'm trying to use your protocol and device code to control my Minolta S414, using an RS 15-2116 remote, but can't get the camera to react.

I simply copied the upgraded protocol in the KM sheet found on the yahoo group and added it via IR to my remote. I also copied the device information, and pasted it into IR.

The remote does fire some IR codes when I press the CH+ or CH- keys, but nothing happens on the camera side, and I don't know where to begin investigating

Thanks in advance for your help

Eiffel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nils_Ekberg
Expert


Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 1689
Location: Near Albany, NY

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eiffel wrote:
Alain,

I'm trying to use your protocol and device code to control my Minolta S414, using an RS 15-2116 remote, but can't get the camera to react.

I simply copied the upgraded protocol in the KM sheet found on the yahoo group and added it via IR to my remote. I also copied the device information, and pasted it into IR.

The remote does fire some IR codes when I press the CH+ or CH- keys, but nothing happens on the camera side, and I don't know where to begin investigating

Thanks in advance for your help

Eiffel

Did you also copy the protocol into IR? Can't tell from your note..
_________________
Nils
Files Section
Diagnosis File Section
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
aberguerand
Advanced Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2003
Posts: 254
Location: Lausanne, VD, Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I presume, but maybe one of the guru will correct me, that the protocols generated with the Protocol Builder Excel sheet are remote specific. As the protocol in the KM update has been generated for an URC-6131 it might not work on your 15-2116.

You should try to download the Protocol Builder Excel sheet and generate the protocol for your remote. The protocol settings are to be downloaded from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Protocol%20Builder%20Files/Minolta_RC-3.txt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - General Forum All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central