JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Advent TV Killed by code search on urc-7800
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> Code Search (Closed)
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Wayne Harropson



Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 30
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:30 am    Post subject: Advent TV Killed by code search on urc-7800 Reply with quote

I tried to get a new ADVENT tv with no urc setup codes to learn the few buttons I required.(urc-7800 remote). The POWER button learned, but only turned on the TV, not off. after relearning it several times it went the other way, only off not on. So I was off to a poor start in trying to extract the codes to create and upgrade. I had given up when I thought I'd try the Code search feature of the remote. I counted up to 95 entries when the TV finally responded. It then was both turning off and on, but a display screen seemed to not want to go away, so I hit the display button and wham! The TV lost its factory programming and wouldn't respond to anything. I returned the TV to Best Buy after getting an official declaration of death by Advent technical support. I bought a similar tv made by Sanyo, and my problems are all solved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19578
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The symptoms you describe when you learned the power button, tell me with a reasonably high degree of certainty that the Advent uses the RC5 protocol, or something similar, which uses a toggle bit, so this symptom is totally to be expected.

As a JP1 user, tha wouldn't have mattered because IR.exe would still have been able to recognize that it was RC5 and would have given you the rest of the info you needed to program your URC-7800 to control it.

As for the code search killing the set, that is a surprise and is something I'd like to make One For All aware of. Have you re-programmed your URC-7800 since it happened? If not, could you blink back the setup code that caused the damage. Then, if you could also mention the exact model of Advent TV this happened to, that would be helpful.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wayne Harropson



Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 30
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regret to say that I only have the last few downloads from the remote, which are named for what I was experiencing, and can send you those. I regret that I didn't take another upload of the remote once the code search had been done that killed it. The TV was an ADVENT Q2035A.

The toggle bit thing is currently above my paygrade, but I would have eventually got it had I not killed the TV first.

With your permission I will send the text files to your personal email or you can tell me how to post them here. but remember, none of the files are after the code search was done, so they won't be of much use.

The only useful info is simply the fact that I counted up to 95, and That although the TV turned on and off, the screen display seemed to remain on. Touching "display" killed it.

Thanks for your concern, Hope this is useful.
Wayne

Ps. I do remember actually seeing the set up code after the disaster, but I can only guess that it was something like 0159 or 0059, but my memory is not good.
[/list]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19578
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wayne,
There's no need to send me the files from before the disaster, the only one I would need to see is the one from directly after the disaster.

As for the toggle bit, it's simply a bit in the signal that switches from 1 to 0 each time the button is pressed. When such a signal is learned it's either captured in the "1" state or the "0" state, devices that use a toggle bit are programmed to expect the bit to toggle with each button press, and if the bit fails to toggle (which it would do with a learned signal) the device ignores all subsequent presses until a different button is pressed.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wayne Harropson



Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 30
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had continued with the learning and created an upgrade, would KM and IR have automatically made the bit toggle, or was there another step? You can refer me to another post if you like.

Thanks,
Wayne
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnsfine
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne Harropson wrote:
If I had continued with the learning and created an upgrade, would KM and IR have automatically made the bit toggle, or was there another step?


I don't see what makes it clear that a toggle bit is even involved. I also suspected a toggle bit based on one detail in your initial description. But Rob must see something I don't to get any "high degree of certainty" about that.

Anyway, in order to build an upgrade you need to identify the protocol. For a common protocol such as RC5, IR's decoder of learned signals would identify it reliably. Some slightly less common protocols with toggle bits may be trickier.

Once you have a correct protocol name for KM or RM, you don't need to worry about the toggle bit, because it is built into KM or RM's support of the protocol. You wouldn't even need to have known there was a toggle bit. The decoder would just identify RC5 or RC6 or other protocol, and you just feed that and the device and function numbers into KM or RM.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19578
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnsfine wrote:
I don't see what makes it clear that a toggle bit is even involved. I also suspected a toggle bit based on one detail in your initial description. But Rob must see something I don't to get any "high degree of certainty" about that.

I'm more than happy to defer to the expert on this, I'm curious what other possibilities you think might yield these results?
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tbone03045



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 37
Location: Commuting between NH & AZ...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did the same thing to my Advent TV last night, all I did was enter setup code 0054 into my 15-1994 and started trying all of the buttons to see what was working. I believe it was one of the small buttons in the middle (mute - last - pip - display - swap - move, or maybe enter or scan.) Not sure which one exactly because there was a second or two delay before the TV freaked out.

(Here's a link to help with the TV anyway:)

http://www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/02-2004/msg01172.html

TBone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnsfine
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 4766
Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I understand all this correctly, it tells us:

1) The TV uses RC5 with nearly the same command set as a typical Philips TV. But it is clearly not exactly the same command set.

2) There is a bug in the TV's firmware that destroys the TV's eeprom when it receives a certain command. Apparently that command is a standard command for a Philips TV.

3) The manufacturer charges (though not an excessive amount) for the replacement eeprom and replacement firmware (apparently firmware with the bug fixed). I get quite angry (even if the dollar amount is small as in this case) at any manufacturer that charges for a correction to their mistake.


Last edited by johnsfine on Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19578
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Tbone,
Are you a JP1 user? If so, could you learn all the buttons from your original Advent TV remote and post the IR.exe file. I'd like to create an upgrade file for this TV set so that the next user doesn't need to try searching for a code and probably killing their TV.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tbone03045



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 37
Location: Commuting between NH & AZ...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rob,

I was a JP1 user a couple of years ago but didn't have any extra time to keep up for a while. I am just getting back into it now that I have some free time on my hands. I do still have my cable and it does work on the new laptop, so I'll try to get that download for ya tonight after work.

Later,
TBone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tbone03045



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 37
Location: Commuting between NH & AZ...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob,

Well I posted it over on the Yahoo board but who knows where it went. I can't find it. Want me to Email it to ya or care to let me know what I did wrong with that posting???

TBone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19578
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey TBone, you've got mail! Smile
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 19578
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just created an upgrade for this TV based on the learned signals that Tom sent me, here it is: Advent_Q2035A_TV.txt
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tbone03045



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 37
Location: Commuting between NH & AZ...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:09 am    Post subject: I'll try it..... Reply with quote

Cool Rob, Thanks. Just gotta wait to get the TV back from the shop now, it may take 2 - 3 weeks to get the parts in from Canada, however..... Hopefully I'll get it back and can test this out before the 3 month warranty runs out!

TBone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> Code Search (Closed) All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central