JP1 Remotes Forum Index JP1 Remotes


FAQFAQ SearchSearch 7 days of topics7 Days MemberlistMemberlist UsergroupsUsergroups RegisterRegister
ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

Unable to lean remote codes
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Beginners
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barf wrote:
The Robman wrote:
So the bottom line is, the MX-850 doesn't handle valid RC5 signals properly. Unfortunately, I know nothing about the MX-850...


Yes, that is where we stand... Ever considered a JP1-remote, for example....?


I would like a remote with as many hard buttons as the MX-850 (I'm a hard button man), and with also with a customizable LCD screen associated to another 10 buttons. It's what makes the MX-850 likeable to my taste, and I haven't found anything else with these features.

Is there a JP1 remote doing all that?



Quote:
Bob8k wrote:
If there is a description of the HEX fields themselves somewhere, I'd be happy to learn how to edit those. You know the saying, "if you give a fish to a man...".

How about my description?


Nice thanks. I also found: https://www.remotecentral.com/features/irdisp2.htm

Using your guide and theirs, I'm starting to understand what I do, and what you and Rob made me try.

I found out how to generate a code with IrScrutinizer that works with the new device: I use the 24 value for D, and change the frequency carrier from 0073 to 006F. I also need to change the Lead In from 0020 to 001F. The new Goldmund just does not like a Lead In greater than 1F.

So, thanks to you guys, I can now generate any working code! No more need to make 50 captures to get it right.

The only remaining problem is the repeat.

I understand now how repeat works thanks to The Robman. I need to specify a Burst pair sequence 2 for the remote to repeat.

The lead Out value needs to be small enough to make the repeat work at the 114ms standard rate.

Unfortunately, when I set the Lead Out small enough, when pressing the key once, the Goldmund reacts as if I pressed it twice.

Also, if I press the key multiple times very rapidly, the Golmund stops reacting, while it does not do that when using the original remote.

So, I'm missing some understanding about how to set up proper timings.
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3768

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob8K wrote:
I would like a remote with as many hard buttons as the MX-850 (I'm a hard button man), and with also with a customizable LCD screen associated to another 10 buttons. It's what makes the MX-850 likeable to my taste, and I haven't found anything else with these features.

Is there a JP1 remote doing all that?
Xsight/Nevo is pretty close with 6 LCD buttons per screen on 12 pages for a total of 72 (per device). Otherwise, it appears to have more hard buttons than your 850. Also looks a lot nicer with color and graphics.
http://www.remotecentral.com/reviews/acoustic_research_xsight_touch/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Bob8K wrote:
I would like a remote with as many hard buttons as the MX-850 (I'm a hard button man), and with also with a customizable LCD screen associated to another 10 buttons. It's what makes the MX-850 likeable to my taste, and I haven't found anything else with these features.

Is there a JP1 remote doing all that?
Xsight/Nevo is pretty close with 6 LCD buttons per screen on 12 pages for a total of 72 (per device). Otherwise, it appears to have more hard buttons than your 850. Also looks a lot nicer with color and graphics.
http://www.remotecentral.com/reviews/acoustic_research_xsight_touch/index.html


Thanks for the link, but it's not quite what I'd like: there are no hard buttons associated to the LCD, so you need to light it up and look at it to use, rather than being able to do it by feel in the dark.
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3768

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob8K wrote:
Thanks for the link, but it's not quite what I'd like: there are no hard buttons associated to the LCD, so you need to light it up and look at it to use, rather than being able to do it by feel in the dark.
Yes there are on the C2/Color. All the buttons are easy use by feel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Yes there are on the C2/Color. All the buttons are easy use by feel.


Oh, thanks. There were not visible on the first link.

How good is the configuring software? The review complains for example that you need to enter buttons names on the remote which sounds annoying.

Is there a way to enter hex data directly? I found out the hard way that it can be necessary. Smile

Is the software freely available, or do you need to jump through hoops to get it like for the Universal Remote one?
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3768

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob8K wrote:
Oh, thanks. There were not visible on the first link.

How good is the configuring software? The review complains for example that you need to enter buttons names on the remote which sounds annoying.

Is there a way to enter hex data directly? I found out the hard way that it can be necessary. Smile

Is the software freely available, or do you need to jump through hoops to get it like for the Universal Remote one?
It's a JP1 remote, so it uses Remote Master like all other JP1 remotes. It's freely available and excellent. Ignore everything in the review about the software. You'll never use it (unless you want to). Learns do prompt for button names, but you can skip that and do it in the software.

You can use hex data (pronto hex) indirectly. But JP1 remotes are far simpler when using codes. You only need to enter one byte of data, the OBC, not the whole pronto hex string. All the issues you're having now go away with JP1, which is why we're trying to talk you into it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18512
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The screen on the Nevo C2 is not a touch screen, there are hard buttons to the left and right of the screen. Zoom in on the following ebay listing and you can see them:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251875251077

Plus, you can buy it on ebay for under $17 shipped (from China), so it won't cost much to give it a try.

I count 41 hard buttons, plus 6 buttons per screen on the Nevo.

I count 32 hard buttons, plus 10 buttons per screen on the MX-850.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:

You can use hex data (pronto hex) indirectly. But JP1 remotes are far simpler when using codes. You only need to enter one byte of data, the OBC, not the whole pronto hex string. All the issues you're having now go away with JP1, which is why we're trying to talk you into it.


So, maybe I'm in the correct forum after all!

If I cannot solve the repeat problem, I'll give a try to the Nevo C2. It's surpringly cheap on Amazon.

Any other JP1 remote that would come close to my requirements? Is there a list somewhere?

From how active this forum is, I'm pretty tempted.
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mdavej
Expert


Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Posts: 3768

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xsight/Nevo is the only JP1 remote with soft buttons on a screen per se. There are some old models (Kameleon) with some sort of touch screen, but they're not as flexible.

Here's the list:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php?title=RemoteChart

BTW, I can't find any cheap Nevo's on Amazon. Do you have a link? As Rob said, most are $17 on ebay. I'd go that route unless you just have money to burn.

Are you using RF on your 850? If so, Nevo C2 isn't RF. The C3 IS RF, but it has no hard buttons for the screen. So pick your poison.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mdavej wrote:
Xsight/Nevo is the only JP1 remote with soft buttons on a screen per se. There are some old models (Kameleon) with some sort of touch screen, but they're not as flexible.

Here's the list:
http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php?title=RemoteChart


Thanks.

Quote:
BTW, I can't find any cheap Nevo's on Amazon. Do you have a link? As Rob said, most are $17 on ebay. I'd go that route unless you just have money to burn.


I posted before seeing the eBay link, the one I found on Amazon was $45.

eBay price is great, the only caveat being delivery to my country (France) being up to April 1!

I'll order one if I can't solve the repeat problem in a few days.

Quote:
Are you using RF on your 850? If so, Nevo C2 isn't RF. The C3 IS RF, but it has no hard buttons for the screen. So pick your poison.


No, I don't use RF.

Thanks again for all the tips.
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18512
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of us get the Nevos quickly on ebay as they're all coming from China, so whether they're going to France or the USA makes no difference. So yeah, it's not exactly like Amazon Prime where it practically arrives before you've even ordered it, but if you can wait, it might be worth a try.

The really good news with the Nevo is that it has a USB port and comes with its own cable. Normally, with JP1 remotes, you buy the remote then you have to buy a cable, and normally the only way to get cables is from a JP1 vendor who makes them (often by hand) because JP1 isn't "official" so there's no official supplier. So we would typically buy a remote for $30 and then buy a cable for $30, so $17 for a remote and cable together is a killer deal.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
None of us get the Nevos quickly on ebay as they're all coming from China, so whether they're going to France or the USA makes no difference. So yeah, it's not exactly like Amazon Prime where it practically arrives before you've even ordered it, but if you can wait, it might be worth a try.

The really good news with the Nevo is that it has a USB port and comes with its own cable. Normally, with JP1 remotes, you buy the remote then you have to buy a cable, and normally the only way to get cables is from a JP1 vendor who makes them (often by hand) because JP1 isn't "official" so there's no official supplier. So we would typically buy a remote for $30 and then buy a cable for $30, so $17 for a remote and cable together is a killer deal.

Ok you convinced me, I ordered one. It will be fun to try it anyway.

I'd still like to figure out the repeat problem though, I spent to much time on the MX-850 to give up now!
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18512
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have any other device that you can use to capture remote signals and then examine them? What I'm thinking is, you program something into the MX then capture the signal it sends, then we look at it and see what's wrong with it. Then, maybe we can think of some compensating change to fix it.

Once your Nevo arrives, you can use that for this purpose.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bob8K



Joined: 13 Feb 2016
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Do you have any other device that you can use to capture remote signals and then examine them? What I'm thinking is, you program something into the MX then capture the signal it sends, then we look at it and see what's wrong with it. Then, maybe we can think of some compensating change to fix it.

Once your Nevo arrives, you can use that for this purpose.


I just did that with the USB Toy, and I found out that the MX always sends 2 burst with a single key press when the burst pair sequence #2 is programmed.

Apparently, most devices ignore a second burst when it's close to the first, but the new Goldmund does not.

So, I don't think that we could make the MX send only one burst.

It's something that I actually noticed with my Arduino. When I made a sketch to do stuff with my remote, I programmed it to ignore close bursts.

I could use it to relay the MX signals, cancelling the second burst, but I'll have to try another library as Barf suggested.
_________________
Robert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Robman
Site Owner


Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Posts: 18512
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just re-read the whole thread as I had forgotten what we were trying to do. If I understand correctly, you have 2 choices for the hex for each button, one version that works without repeating, and another that repeats but doesn't work well for a single button press (it's thinks it's 2 presses), is that a good summary?

You've been editing the hex but without fully knowing what you're doing, so it might be time to do some reading so you know what effect your edits will have.

Good place to start is right here...
http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infrared_Signals

I'd start with Barry Gordon's article because it describes the pronto format, but the guts of it deals with Pulse Width Method signals, where the RC5 is Bi-Phase, so Guy Kuo's article explains that.

But here's a quick primer...
1. The first word is always 0000 for raw code.
2. The second word controls the frequency
3. The third word is the length of the "sent once" portion
4. The forth word is the length of the "repeating" portion.

Those 4 words are followed by the raw signal code. There's no sign, or any other way to indicate whether a word is an ON time or an OFF time in pronto code, so you have to keep track, each odd word is ON and each even word is OFF.

So, when I was giving you hints about how to switch a one-time signal into a repeating one, I was saying to swap words 3 and 4, not just edit one, so "000B 0000" would become "0000 000B" for example. If you change it to "000B 0001", as I think you mentioned, what you are saying is that there is 1 additional pair at the end of the hex string, but you never added one.

In terms of the pairs themselves, in bi-phase a ONE pair is ON-OFF and a ZERO pair is OFF-ON, so what happens when you have a "10" in the binary is you get ON-OFF-OFF-ON. In RC5 each unit of time is 0020 in pronto hex, so that ON-OFF-OFF-ON string would end up as 0020 0040 0020, and that's why the strings are all different lengths.

I'm not sure what the sweet spot is here, or if there even is one for the MX-850, but hopefully that quick primer, along with reading, will help you experiment.

My guess is, the nest you can do is program the single send code for all the buttons that don't need to repeat, and use the repeating version for buttons like VOL+ where it doesn't matter if it goes 2 steps, but for things like arrow buttons where 2 steps is bad, you might just have to live with single step code.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic       JP1 Remotes Forum Index -> JP1 - Beginners All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Get Smart! the band's official homepage Rockabilly Central