JP1 Remotes

[JezW]

Hi all,

I only recently heard about JP1 remotes whilst researching harmony remotes. I did not know other controls of this type existed until one of your members, mdavej, pointed me in this direction. The more I read about JP1, the more interested I am. It seems like the possibilities of what you can do with a JP1 remote and the customizations far exceed any of the mass marketed products like the harmony range.

I'd like to think that once I have the right hardware, I will be able to follow the guides and instructions provided in the read me thread. I have some experience with programming from university (visual basic and C++) but that was a few years ago and it does look like JP1 is quite a different type of programming.

My equipment is the following:

-Samsung TV UE40H6400 (probably has discrete codes)
-Sky+ HD box DRX890WL (may have discrete codes)
-Roksan Kandy K2 amplifier (almost definitely doesn't have discrete codes, or unable to find, spoken to manufacturer)

So now I need to choose a control that is right for me. Ideally, the control has the following:

-Learning function (essential for Roksan amp, no codes anywhere as far as I can tell)
-Backlit
-State tracking

Nevo C2
Definitely a candidate and seems to be highly recommended. The only functionality it's lacking is state tracking because there is no extender for this remote. However, the C2 does have a screen which I don't think any other remotes have (except the C3). Without actually using a remote with a screen and without a screen, I'm finding it difficult to imagine what I might be missing.

Inteset 422
I believe that a forum member is currently working on an extender for this remote but I don't think that it's finished.

URC-6440
An extender has been written for the EU version of this control. I live in the UK and it's available on amazon.co.uk

I've copied the JP1 remote list to excel and filtered the columns for what I'm looking for (backlight, extender, learning) but I'm struggling to choose one (there are a lot!). The lower table can't be filtered for backlight either.

So my questions are -
To a completely new user, accounting for what I would like to do - which remote would you recommend?
If you own a Nevo C2 (or Xsight equivalent) do you find that the added functionality of this control and the screen outweighs the lack of an extender and state tracking?
To JP1 users that do not use state tracking, do you find this to be an issue (or do you wish that you had it)?

Many thanks, and I look forward to the steep learning curve..

Jeremy

[vickyg2003]

[The Robman]

I second the thing about having a learning remote, because without it you will always be dependent on others to supply you with upgrades for your new equipment. So first and foremost you need a way to capture the signals for a new device and convert it into an upgrade. If your ultimate remote, that you want to use, turns out not to have learning, but a cheap JP1 learning remote or a JP1 widget just for this purpose.

I do have power-on and power-off macros, and those are vital ingredients in my house hold. My wife and kids have been able to work the remote since the kids were 5 or 6 years old.

I managed to get by without state tracking before but once I installed the extender I really started including state tracking and am really liking it. Sure, it gets out of sync, so you just need to program buttons that can be used to fix it.

My remote would be perfect for you, but it's long been out of circulation, it's a Radio Shack 15-1994.

The Nevo C2 is probably a very good choice as the only thing it lacks is state tracking, most of the extender features have been built in. The small screen is primarily for the list of devices and "extra" buttons that aren't covered by the hard buttons, and it does have quite a lot of hard buttons.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[vickyg2003]

[JezW]

Hi Vicky and Rob, thanks for your replies. Vicky, your situation is definitely more complicated than mine!

So maybe there's not an obvious choice for what I'd like (learning, state tracking, backlit)?

Is state tracking for my first JP1 remote a bit ambitious?

I do like the look of the Nevo C2 and given the price and its functionality, I'm tempted to get one (especially if you answer yes to my previous question).

However, if I cannot find discrete codes for my TV then I might be reluctant (I'm almost certain there's no discrete codes available for my amplifier).

How can I find out whether discrete codes exist for my samsung TV (UE40H6400)? I have installed remote master 2.03 and downloaded two samsung tv files form the device files section. One has discrete codes for on/off and the other doesn't, so I am not sure if all samsung TVs do?

For the sky box, a discrete code for ON exists in the form of the "Sky" button, and discrete OFF being "Sky + Power buttons", so fine on that one.

Thanks for your help. Despite all the reading, I feel a bit useless right now! Hopefully once I get a remote and start having a go things will become clearer.

[The Robman]

Given that you can get the Nevo C2 for $16 shipped from China, it's not much of a gamble. In the old days we thought we were doing good buying a remote for $30 and then a JP1 cable for another $30. The Nevo comes with its own USB cable.

The Nevo has activities, which are kind of like macros, so if you program them wisely, you might be able to mostly get by without discretes. For example, if you always start from the "everything is off" position, all of your start up macros will need to turn on the TV, so the regular POWER button should work. At least, that's how I did it for about 12 years or so before I implemented state tracking.

Personally, the Nevo hasn't replaced my 15-1994 yet. I haven't fully investigated the macro situation on it, but I hear that you can't switch device modes in macros, which would be inconvenient. Maybe Dave can comment on that as he knows the remote a lot better.

As for finding a a remote with learning, extender and state tracking, that should be fairly easy, but finding one with a backlight might be harder.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[The Robman]

Actually, I was just looking at the packaging of my, as yet un-opened, OARUSB04G and I see that it has both learning and a backlight, plus is has an extender so it has state tracking. It also comes with its own USB cable.

$16.95
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HNIHM5S/

The European version is called URC-6440 (£18.52)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008WWCHBS/

The only drawback is the limited number of buttons and only 4 device buttons.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[mathdon]

[JezW]

Right...this is starting to get complicated and I don't even have a remote yet lol. I know you're all very knowledgeable on the subject of JP1 and programming but for a newbie this can be a bit overwhelming. I've done my best to read what I can from the guides but I don't think I'll be able to make real progress until I have a control plugged into my computer and remote master on the screen in front of me...

For now, hopefully it'll help progress things faster if I number my questions.

1. Rob, you said the Nevo has activities which "are kind of like macros". I thought the two were the same. Please can you describe the difference between the two? (I've done a web search and can't find the answer)

2. I can't find whether discrete codes exist for my samsung TV (UE40H6400)? I have installed remote master 2.03 and downloaded two samsung tv files form the device files section. One has discrete codes for on/off and the other doesn't, so I am not sure if all samsung TVs do?

I'm not sure where to look on here? http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=discrete&br=samsung

3. Mathdon, you said "I don't think it is difficult to remember which real PVR is PVR1 and which is PVR2". Please can you explain what you mean? I can only see one PVR button the URC 6440.

4. Mathdon, why did you give up on the C2 (in favour of the 6440)?

5. As a complete newbie to JP1, will I be able to program the extender and state tracking with the URC 6440?

6. I forgot to mention in my first post - I'm also hoping to get a Flirc dongle for my PC to control a few functions, mainly shutdown, and ideally media player pause, etc. This will also be possible?

Many thanks

Jeremy

[tranx]

(PS JezW, missed your follow up before posting this but anyway ) Once the unique 6440 extender is up and running the remote can still learn, and there are few possible other reasons to deactivate the extender. Apart from the more normal device-switching capability in macros, which is invaluable, one of the many good things is 'DCRestore', which achieves reversion after a global macro to the preceding remote-state. 6440 buttons are big and comfortable but that also helps to minimise the need for multiple button pressing. (For extra clarity 'DCSave' can be made explicit but it happens automatically at the start of a macro). I find the primary Xsight/Nevo buttons are awkward to use and very much missed the individual physical device buttons, or the facility to use any button as a 'pseudo' device button, or to change devices on the fly. Four main device buttons are enough for our most frequently used gadgets, with the shifted ones reserved for alternative versions or other less popular devices. Outside macros we hardly ever need the number buttons for the individual digits themselves, so put those on the shifted versions, and can use the unshifted number buttons for sets of macros, which are fairly consistent between device modes so don't require much brain power . Favourite channel macros in each device can go on e.g. the shifted buttons in a circular arrangement around 'OK'. The double shifted and 15 'phantom' buttons (in each device) are good places for functions which don't need to take up physical buttons, or different delays, so there is plenty of room for them all and the memory is relatively massive.

[The Robman]

Jez,
1. I didn't get as far as trying to program macros on my Nevo, so Dave will have to answer your macro questions.

2. You will need to have a JP1 remote in your hands to determine if your set supports the discrete codes or not.

3. What Graham meant is, when you only have 4 device buttons but more than 4 devices to control, you can "stack" them so the DVD button might control 2 DVD players, for example. So, the regular DVD button might control your Toshiba DVD player and shift/DVD might control your Samsung Blu Ray, just as a made up example. But let's not get too deep into the "how" stuff until you have an actual remote in your hands.

4. I'll let Graham answer for himself, but my guess is that he probably prefers the bigger buttons on 6440 and the real device buttons. Of course, having an extender probably didn't hurt either.

5. The beauty of JP1 is that it works so well right out of the box, and then you can jump into the advanced stuff at your own pace. The state tracking stuff, using ToadTog, might take a bit of time to figure out, but we can help with that.

6. Having 2 remotes (the real one and the PC) controlling your gear is fine as long as you don't issue any state-tracked buttons from the PC, for (hopefully) obvious reasons.
_________________
Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!

[JezW]

This forum is brilliant! I really appreciate all the help. Of course I've got a few more questions though...

1. I've read through the comparison done by tranx of the URC 6440 and the OARUSB04G. It seems like when used with RM, they behave in exactly the same way. Is this correct? Or is it only when they're used with their respective extenders?

The reason I ask is that I'm in the UK but I'm tempted to order a OARUSB04G from the US because I would prefer the remote in black. I've checked and amazon.com will send me one for £16

2. The list of JP1 remotes has different versions listed for the URC 6440. I don't suppose this matters?

3. I've already installed remote master on my pc. I extracted the zipped contents to an empty folder which I had created in "C:/Program Files/Remote Master". I assume this is fine? I'm just wondering whether the installation would have tried to create a folder in the same directory where I had already created one.

4. Where is a shift button on these remotes? Or do you map a "shift" key to whichever button you prefer using RM?

5. With shift presses, like your response for question 3 Rob, would you press shift+DVD then release both keys? The control would now be in the correct mode to control the second DVD player?

Hopefully the questions will stop for a while now!

Thanks again

[JezW]

Sorry...almost forgot...

7. The 6440 is listed as a simpleset cable on the JP1 remote list, as opposed to JP1 or JP1.3, etc. What does this mean?

8. I've seen in the Tools section there are windows drivers, but they're for "Delcom interfaces". Do I need these? Or is the only piece of software I need remote master?

Thanks!

[mathdon]

Answer to q.4: The remote as supplied does not have a shift button. The shift capability is provided by the extender. The List button acts as a shift button when pressed briefly, but gives the List function on a long press. PVR1 is selected by pressing the PVR button. PVR2 by pressing List briefly, i.e. shift, followed by PVR. PVR3 by pressing List briefly twice followed by PVR. You don't hold shift, i.e. List, down (as you would on a keyboard), you just press it briefly followed by the key you want shifted.

Why did I give up on the XSight? I find it incredibly tedious to scroll through the five pages of soft buttons on the LCD, and if you avoid it by putting everything you normally want on the physical buttons then why have the LCD. In any case you have to use the LCD to select a particular device, activity etc. I just got rapidly fed up with the way it works.

Your RMIR installation was correct, extracting the zip file to an empty folder.
_________________
Graham

[mathdon]

Further answers:

7. JP1 etc remotes need a special cable. The Nevo and the various Simpleset remotes just need the standard supplied USB cable.

8. You only need RMIR. Delcom interfaces are only for the earliest JP1 remotes.

The URC-6440 and OARUSB04G behave in the same way with the extender installed, but not without it. However, the internal databases of setup codes differ. The URC-6440 has a database for European equipment, the OARUSB04G for US equipment. There is little overlap between them. You CAN use the OARUSB04G for European equipment but you have to use a device upgrade for every device. I recommend sticking to the 6440.
_________________
Graham