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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: ToadTog suggestion |
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Would it be possible to make a new version of ToadTog that would be more designed for input tracking? I am thinking of devices that have an INPUT button that toggles between 3 or more inputs. Setting those up in the current ToadTog is really complicated.
Here's what I have in mind.
First, make the register that is used selectable so that that each instance of ToadTog can use a different register. Then you would set up entries for each input giving them a number which represents the number of presses of the INPUT button that are required to get there (from a fixed starting point). You would also need to define the number of inputs so that ToadTog known when to reset the counter.
So, for example, the setup might be:
0 = Radio
1 = TV
2 = CD
3 = DVD
4 = AUX1
5 = AUX2
# of inputs = 6
Then in the ToadTog code, if the user selects the "DVD" input (ie, #3) and the current state is "TV" (ie, #1), ToadTog would send the INPUT button 2 times (ie, 3 - 1 = 2). When the selected input # is less than the current #, it would add the number of inputs (ie, 6) to the selected # first. So, if the user selects "DVD" input (ie, #3) and the current state is "AUX2" (ie, #5), ToadTog would send the INPUT button 4 times (ie, (3+6) - 5 = 4). _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Finding an unused register is very difficult. The remote seems to use them all. At one time i toyed with reusing of the toadtog register to do a case statement type execution instead of the current ticking. Since i use multiple remotes in all viewing areas it isn't feasible for me to put that kind of functionality in the remote.
For the the places where i need that to toggle loop functionality i use LKP recurrsion. It works really well for me. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well, if finding an unused register is not an option, what about having the option of using more than 1 bit at a time in ToadTog? In my case, my TV just has 3 inputs (ie, TV/Video1/Video2), so I would just need 2 bits (and I'm using 2 for my hand-made effort anyway. I don't think many devices need to toggle through more than 8 inputs, so they would only need 3 bits. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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tranx
Joined: 13 May 2012 Posts: 682 Location: Hants, UK |
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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We have a problem HomeTheatre/BluRay/Receiver Panasonic SCBTT370 which has no discrete inputs, with another box is attached which doesn't cooperate by CEC. Luckily, the 'known state' home screen can be selected with a discrete command and it is also the starting point for input selection from mains power on.
Last edited by tranx on Wed Sep 30, 2015 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ElizabethD Advanced Member
Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 2348
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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This has been a need since day 1
I have a mad idea, and you're a good protocol maker.
What if you put your inputs on the FAV button (which you now only use for 2 functions). Now, FAV cycles inputs over and over (I know, I've done it), bumping its index. But that's not enough. What if you write a special protocol to change the index that Fav is to use while you synch your devices?
In 1994 .asm I see how FAV runs:
R_FavState = R7E ;Position within Fav list
80D1: 20 7E INC R_FavState
I know nothing. I don't know if you can access $7E in the extender but this would be the place to defeat the automatic INC and make it do your math instead, and stuff it back into $7E. _________________ Liz
Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:04 am Post subject: |
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The fav register and the ToadTog registers can be altered in a protocol. There is a limit value too. With PB and the old keymove building spreadsheet you can do a lot with IR. RMIR doesn't allow you to experiment as much. Somewhere in a post I outlined an idea for a SuperTog protocol.
Edit
Here is that old thread on this topic
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8009 |
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tranx
Joined: 13 May 2012 Posts: 682 Location: Hants, UK |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:20 am Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: | Well, if finding an unused register is not an option, what about having the option of using more than 1 bit at a time in ToadTog? In my case, my TV just has 3 inputs (ie, TV/Video1/Video2), so I would just need 2 bits (and I'm using 2 for my hand-made effort anyway. I don't think many devices need to toggle through more than 8 inputs, so they would only need 3 bits. | Without discrete inputs as long as synch can be maintained, perhaps using a known state to begin, I think the state of the remote itself can sort of serve to determine the current input.
Usually with DSMs for each of e.g. four inputs: in each device-state, four unique buttons can be available, each carrying the appropriate macro for changing the inputs etc.
Like this, with shift and X-shift the same button could perhaps do three inputs in each remote state. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: |
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tranx wrote: | Without discrete inputs as long as synch can be maintained, perhaps using a known state to begin, I think the state of the remote itself can sort of serve to determine the current input. |
If you're suggesting ways to make it work with the current ToadTog, I already did that (see here), I was suggesting ways to make it easier. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help!
Last edited by The Robman on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pH7_jp1
Joined: 14 Sep 2003 Posts: 480 Location: Sterling Heights, MI |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
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In this post: Input Tracking for device without discretes the method identified as "Solution 1" used the state of a key set instead of toadtog bits to track the current input state of the TV. The resulting code was smaller and easier to understand than using toadtog, but it still is a pain to go back and understand at a later date.
Quite a bit later I threw in the towel and applied an inexpensive hardware solution: In this post This worked so well I used it on 2 different systems and the ability to just send discrete codes and not worry about whether the TV was ready to receive an input mode command made it all so simple I quit caring about software solutions anymore. |
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I used that old thread of yours as a guide when I implemented my ToadTog solution for my, much simpler, TV. I couldn't use solution 1 because I use all of the buttons on the remote. While my TV does have PIP, I never use it, but I have re-used those buttons in many modes for other things, so I don't have "spare" buttons available. Although, now that I think about it, do the X_ modes include the shifted and x-shifted versions of the buttons too? If so, I guess I could have used one of those. But regardless, I got it working using your solution 2.
Bit 1 = TV vs. VIDEO mode
Bit 2 = VIDEO1 vs. VIDEO2
I can force TV mode using CH+, so it's easy for the remote to re-sync itself. _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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tranx
Joined: 13 May 2012 Posts: 682 Location: Hants, UK |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Supposing the e.g. four inputs are in a loop a,b,c,d..then back to a, which is a common situation:
After synching by whatever means,
the currency of each of four device-modes or activities would imply and that a particular input was already in use.
'a' would correspond to Watch Tv/Device Tv and = the Tv's 'input Tv' (being its own tuner),
'b'= Tv input Hdmi1 (for a PVR)
'c'=Tv input Hdmi2 (for a Media player)
'd'=Tv input Hdmi3 (for DVD player)
Upon that basis, in each device/activity mode, the same single button 'X' could be configured for a different set of three different macros: in each set one macro being on 'X', a second on 'buttonShiftX, and a third on buttonX-ShiftX, to move the input cursor around the input loop as required to achieve the three other possible inputs in the example, while setting up the corresponding device mode/activity which would serve as the next springboard.
In the device mode for watching a PVR, which would correspond to input 'b' and 'recognise' that the PVR mode was current:-
On button X, to go to the Tv mode, the macro would move the input backx1 (or forwardx3) in the loop, to input 'a' (inputTv), with 'ok' as well if needed, and the key/s to set up the relevant device or activity state.
On button shiftX, to go to the Media player mode, the macro would move the input forwardx1, to input 'c' for the media player etc.
On button X-shiftX, to go to the DVD player mode, the macro would move the input forwardx2, to input 'd' for the DVD player etc.
If possible and enough buttons were spare it would be friendlier to use the four device buttons themselves, or the colour buttons, to carry the DSMs, which set of macros would differ as required for each current device state. Three buttons could instead be configured as toggles, to take the remote from a 'home' mode to another or back to 'home' mode from that other device/activity mode (so no need for a fourth button).
Last edited by tranx on Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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The Robman wrote: | If you're suggesting ways to make it work with the current ToadTog, I already did that (see here), I was suggesting ways to make it easier. |
No, I was suggesting using the lower 3 bits of the toadtog and use this as a state tracking for values up to 8 states and then doing macro 0 to 7 depending on this value.
Never mind though, nobody understands what I'm talking about most of the time anyway.
Quote: | Although, now that I think about it, do the X_ modes include the shifted and x-shifted versions of the buttons too? If so, I guess I could have used one of those. But regardless, I got it working using your solution 2.[/qutoe]
Yes X_ modes cover the shifts and xshifts too, and don't forget that the device keys can be DSM's instead of macros meaning that there could be 64 different macros instead of just 8.
Also a in another thread you were talking about an 8820 remote. , that device has 2 phantoms, and depending on which signature, one of the extenders give it 5 imaginary devices too. That might make it a little easier, without the multiplexing, but the layout is not much fun to use. I wrote extenders for both those remotes and don't use either because the layout is so blech.
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The Robman Site Owner
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 21237 Location: Chicago, IL |
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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vickyg2003 wrote: | The Robman wrote: | If you're suggesting ways to make it work with the current ToadTog, I already did that (see here), I was suggesting ways to make it easier. |
No, I was suggesting using the lower 3 bits of the toadtog and use this as a state tracking for values up to 8 states and then doing macro 0 to 7 depending on this value.
Never mind though, nobody understands what I'm talking about most of the time anyway. |
Lol, I was responding to tranx _________________ Rob
www.hifi-remote.com
Please don't PM me with remote questions, post them in the forums so all the experts can help! |
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vickyg2003 Site Admin
Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 7073 Location: Florida |
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Oh, lol.
I was so used to people not understanding what I'm trying to convey when talking about extenders. I have posted LKP recursion for years and FiNALLY got feedback on this thread
I really like the programming part of JP1. Don't like the hardware aspect at all, but this part is so much fun! |
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