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15-1994 Extender Question
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The Robman
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vickyg2003 wrote:
I notice that you haven't altered your courtesy macros to simulate punch through either.

Sure I have, all modes have the volume punching through to the stereo (CD mode) except for Plug & Power and TV, which use their own.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
I also use the ReplayTV special protocol for dynamic unit code selection, so that have that display properly you will need to add Replay_Sel=01FA to the [SpecialProtocols] section of the RDF.

Why is it needed? What display?
As is, the .ex8 file loads and seems to display correctly in IR and in RMIR.
When I added what you wrote to RDF, IR was still ok, RMIR threw an error (which if real, I'll follow up later in the RMIR section). Is undercore "_" allowed in RDF? I ask, because there've been problems with spaces.

I don't have 1994 to play with this interesting file Sad so all I can do is snoop'n learn.
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Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride Smile
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't realized that your post in the RMIR thread was about one of my files, but that prompted me to try opening my current file in RMIR and I got the same abend as you.

This file contains a special protocol that is not currently recognized as a special protocol. so its entries show up in the Keymoves tab rather than the Special Protocols tab. When I add that entry, it moves them to the SP tab in IR, but it causes RMIR to choke.

And Liz, why do you not have a 15-1994, eh???
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my latest version, with some minor tweaks to the ReplayTV setup that fall into the "just because I can" category.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=13580

I tweaked the FFWD and REW buttons so that a short press will send the "3 minute skip" or "1 minute skipback" commands, and long presses will send the regular FFWD and REW commands.

I also used up the last toggle bit to control the diagonal arrow buttons. Basically, Replay has some codes for diagonal arrows which make typing on the onscreen keyboard a bit easier but I've never had a way to program them before, but what I've done is use a LKP on the LAST button so that a short press toggles the new diagonal arrow function and a long press sends the regular "Return To Live" function that was there previously.

When the diagonal arrow mode is ON, the following 4 buttons change their purpose:

MENU becomes diagonal arrow NW
EXIT becomes diagonal arrow SW
FAV/SCAN becomes diagonal arrow SE
PROGRAM/GUIDE becomes diagonal arrow NE

If you look at a picture of a 15-1994, you will see that those 4 buttons are in the 4 corners around the arrow keys.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Here's my latest version, with some minor tweaks to the ReplayTV setup that fall into the "just because I can" category.
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=13580

Yep you can. The more you play the more addicted you will get. Laughing


Quote:

I tweaked the FFWD and REW buttons so that a short press will send the "3 minute skip" or "1 minute skipback" commands, and long presses will send the regular FFWD and REW commands.

A good start for the LKP. You may recall that the last key in an extender Macro can be held, we usually dealt with that for duration problems. That also means that you can put the LKP on the last key in a regular macro and it will be handled as an LKP. Typically I use that to setup the inputs on my device selection menu, but a lot of people use this for the turn things ON for their activities too.

Quote:

I also used up the last toggle bit to control the diagonal arrow buttons. Basically, Replay has some codes for diagonal arrows which make typing on the onscreen keyboard a bit easier but I've never had a way to program them before, but what I've done is use a LKP on the LAST button so that a short press toggles the new diagonal arrow function and a long press sends the regular "Return To Live" function that was there previously.

When the diagonal arrow mode is ON, the following 4 buttons change their purpose:

MENU becomes diagonal arrow NW
EXIT becomes diagonal arrow SW
FAV/SCAN becomes diagonal arrow SE
PROGRAM/GUIDE becomes diagonal arrow NE

If you look at a picture of a 15-1994, you will see that those 4 buttons are in the 4 corners around the arrow keys.


Nice use of a toadtog for remote state keeping as opposed to equipment state keeping. Remote state keeping is a great thing to do with toadtogs.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I discussed this with Casey, my 15 yo son, and he agreed that keeping the SHIFT option, rather than LKP, for the start-up macros is best. Yes, it's 2 button presses but you only need to do it once when you start up the process. But, he did like the idea of using LKP for the FFWD and REW buttons.

So, now that you can see my setup, what else would you do?
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There isn't a right or wrong on this of course. You seem to be using all the tools. Your remote is nicely documented, and your family is happy with it. You taught me about moving keys to the needed mode, like you did with the 1s to get your input standardized. I really find that works so well, and makes things work so standardized.

Quote:
So, now that you can see my setup, what else would you do?

First thing I would do is document that I'm using Shift cloaking in those FFWD and REW keys, because I always stumble over that when I look at an IR file a few months or years from later.


The Robman wrote:
I discussed this with Casey, my 15 yo son, and he agreed that keeping the SHIFT option, rather than LKP, for the start-up macros is best. Yes, it's 2 button presses but you only need to do it once when you start up the process. But, he did like the idea of using LKP for the FFWD and REW buttons.


Nothing says you can't use an LKP as the last key on the device selection macro to call those SHIFT startup keys anyway and keep the SHIFT key in place. Use a LONGPRESS to select the most popular option you have on each device. There is a reason that so many of us do that.

For the LAST button, I'd do it the way you did, but if there were more than 4 keys involved, you might get to a point where multiplexing is a more space saving than having to toadtog each key.

You have some keymoves that you don't have to use for volume on CD that are redundant since they can be handled with device selection. You might want to revisit the types of keymaps you are using if they were chosen for punch through characteristics instead of to minimize the number of keymoves.


And then on a side note, there is my standard advice to parents of 15 year old boys: get them into drivers training as early as possible even if it costs more to go private, and then keep them from getting their actual license as long as possible. The longer they drive on that learner's permit, the better!
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prior to moving everything over to the extender, I used the Device Combiner to combine my Sherwood audio receiver and my Sony CD player into one upgrade, which was on the CD button. But in Extender mode, the available upgrade memory is much more limited, so that was no longer an option. So, I assigned the built in Sony CD code to the CD button and programmed the few Sherwood buttons that I needed via keymoves, that's why there are keymoves on POWER, volume and SURROUND in CD mode. You say that I don't need those CD volume keymoves, but how else would I do it? All the other device modes (except TV and P&P) use V_CD for the volume, which points to those keymoves.

If I did add a LKP button at the end of the start up macros, what would it do? And even with the extender, those start up macros take a little while to run, so wouldn't you have to hold your finger on the button for all the time that the macros is running in order for the LKP to do the LP option? I don't think I'd like that.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:
Prior to moving everything over to the extender, I used the Device Combiner to combine my Sherwood audio receiver and my Sony CD player into one upgrade, which was on the CD button. But in Extender mode, the available upgrade memory is much more limited, so that was no longer an option. So, I assigned the built in Sony CD code to the CD button and programmed the few Sherwood buttons that I needed via keymoves, that's why there are keymoves on POWER, volume and SURROUND in CD mode. You say that I don't need those CD volume keymoves, but how else would I do it? All the other device modes (except TV and P&P) use V_CD for the volume, which points to those keymoves.

Oh, I see. Your setup is so complicated! I thought you were controlling 10 items, but I guess its more on your 8 device remote.

BTW: don't quote me, but I think that if the upgrade room was full, that IR tried to place the upgrade in the keymove area, because to my knowledge most remotes don't check to make sure the device or protocol actually reside within the upgrade area.

The Robman wrote:
If I did add a LKP button at the end of the start up macros, what would it do? And even with the extender, those start up macros take a little while to run, so wouldn't you have to hold your finger on the button for all the time that the macros is running in order for the LKP to do the LP option? I don't think I'd like that.


No the LKP goes at the end of the device selection macro which barely takes any time, The LKP short side does nothing and the long side calls the startup macro that is on the shift key.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never counted, but let me see:
1. tv
2. vcr1
3. vcr2
4. dvd1
5. dvd2
6. replay1
7. replay2
8. receiver
9. cd
10. video selector
11. x10
12. blu ray

wow, so 12 devices! of course, I don't use the vcrs anymore, but they're still in there, and I programmed some nice macros for them when I setup the extender, just to see if I could.

And the 15-1994 is officially just a 6 device remote, because unlike it's cousin the Cinema 7, this one has a device button locked down for x10.

Btw, do you know what happened to the highlight feature in IR.exe? I see it's still there in the GUI but it's disabled. I want to reverse engineer how ToadTog works to see if I can write a SuperToad and it would be a helpful feature.
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robman wrote:

Btw, do you know what happened to the highlight feature in IR.exe? I see it's still there in the GUI but it's disabled. I want to reverse engineer how ToadTog works to see if I can write a SuperToad and it would be a helpful feature.

Tools->Options->Highlighting needs to have a check.

With 12 devices, you really should be using the 8820, especially if you have the second version, as that one has the 2 phantoms, and the 5 imaginary, so it operates 15 different devices with ease
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Remember to provide feedback to let us know how the problem was solved and share your upgrades.

Tip: When creating an upgrade, always include ALL functions from the oem remote, even if you never plan on assigning them to a button. Complete function lists makes an upgrade more helpful to others.
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The Robman
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Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made them all fit in the 15-1994 quite nicely

TV = TV
VCR = vcr1 and vcr2
CBL = replay1 and replay 2
cd = receiver and cd
aux1 = blu ray
aux2 = dvd1 and dvd2
p&p = x10

the video selector is spread out and used where needed.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Vicky, regarding "if the upgrade room was full..." - When Rob posted one of his early versions, he only had 20 bytes free. So I started looking through my docs for when and which devices or extenders can move memory. I can't find it. But, I do know one of my 8910s did made such a move.
But now, Rob put in more stuff and gained upgrade free bytes by his usual magic, so I stopped looking.
And I more than agree with you on 15yr old driving advice Smile

@Rob, you just have to hold the LKP button enough to trigger LKP rather than the short side. But you do have to keep the remote pointed longer so every command reaches the device - it really depends what's in your LKP. For example, the last step of one of my power off jobs is Vol- repeated 10 times (using one of your protocols). For this one, I don't have to hold it while the volume drops slowly. Some other bunch of commands might.

Your last file is a masterpiece, just like your original one always included with the IR issue was for me to learn from years ago.
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Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride Smile
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElizabethD wrote:
Your last file is a masterpiece, just like your original one always included with the IR issue was for me to learn from years ago.

I agree, you have always been well organized. It has shown in every post you have ever written and every protocol you have written, everything you've done has helped me in my remote work.

The Robman wrote:
I've made them all fit in the 15-1994 quite nicely

TV = TV
VCR = vcr1 and vcr2
CBL = replay1 and replay 2
cd = receiver and cd
aux1 = blu ray
aux2 = dvd1 and dvd2
p&p = x10

the video selector is spread out and used where needed.


Very well organized. My guess is that you probably use Replay1 and Replay2 quite often, since in the past you have said you don't watch live TV. And you already mentioned the VCRs are not used that often . since I like to use the long press of the device buttons to get my user's up and running as easily as possible, I'd probably reorganize as follows:

VCR= replay1 and vcr1
CBL = replay2 and VCR2

Then I'd end the device selection macros with an LKP to start the various devices.


Then long press of the various device keys would run the start activities and select the inputs for the most used devices which would be the first device in every mode.
TV=TV
CBL = Replay1
VCR = Replay2
CD = music
Aux = BluRay
Aux2 = DVD1


One thing I noticed when looking back at my own, relatively simple setups and then back at yours, is that I have TV aspect ratio in every viewing mode in every remote! That's probably because we only have partial HD service. This may not be an issue for you, but for me personally, the SD stuff always seems to need to be adjusted to fit the screen depending on the channel and then when you switch back to HD everbody's head is cut off, or the DH can't see the game scores. Even on my old 4:3 TVs being fed by an OTA converter, I adjust the aspect ratio on the box to fill the screen and it changes by channel and show. You may not have considered moving the ratio into the individual viewing modes if your TV needs other keys like Arrows and OKs to finish the job, or it just may not bother you like it bothers me! But with the extender there are lots of ways to do this. Consider the universal macro that starts with X_TV instead of keymoving the function to all the viewing modes.

if you have Discretes
X_TV: Discrete Ratio; Exit

No Discretes, no problem: This can be handled easily with a recursive LKP call

Pressable First key:=
X_TV; Ratio; looping LKP key

Looping LKP := timeout 3 or 4
Short press
-Exit
Long press
-Arrow
Looping LKP Key (call its self)
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vickyg2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious as to how your toadtog is going to work for your on/off. I don't have any experience with equipment state keeping, because of the multiple remote situation here. but I was thinking about the way I use a dvd player or a VCR. Typically I walk over to the unit, turn it on to insert the DVD or Tape, then sit down with my remote, press and hold DVD or VCR to switch inputs and sit back and relax. I think it would be really hard to change that behavior to accommodate a remote.
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