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My URC-6440 extender / RMIR questions
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jeajea



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 202
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: My URC-6440 extender / RMIR questions Reply with quote

RMIR v2.03 Alpha 28 build 19

Is it possible change the device used for volume an mute with a macro? If
my AV receiver is on I want to use it for volume control. If the AVR is off I
want to use my TV for volume control. I can use a toadtog to track the
AVR ON/OFF state but I haven’t figured out how to switch devices with a
macro.

There is a button “Shift” available to use in macros. What does it do/how
would I use it?

The extender manual indicate macros cannot be assigned to a device
button (which makes sense) but RMIR allows you to assign a macro to a
device button. Is this something the RMIR should block?

RMIR also allows you to assign Special Functions to device buttons. I don’t
know if this makes sense. Should RMIR also block this?
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ElizabethD
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Joined: 09 Feb 2004
Posts: 2269

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: My URC-6440 extender / RMIR questions Reply with quote

jeajea wrote:
RMIR v2.03 Alpha 28 build 19

Is it possible change the device used for volume an mute with a macro? If
my AV receiver is on I want to use it for volume control. If the AVR is off I
want to use my TV for volume control. I can use a toadtog to track the
AVR ON/OFF state but I haven’t figured out how to switch devices with a
macro.

Absolutely - I do it all the time. Done by keymoves.
Wait a tiny bit, few minutes, I'll post an example you can try.
Can't answer other questions since I don't know your remote.
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Liz
Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride Smile
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bunch of tiny RMIR build 19 screenies to illustrate - maybe something like this will work for you
http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=13289
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Liz
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jeajea



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 202
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:58 pm    Post subject: Seting volume buttons on the fly Reply with quote

I guess I didn’t explain what I am trying to do. I already have shift vol+,
vol- and mute operating the TV. As part of AVR toadtogs I want to set the
unshifted buttons to TV when turning the AVR off and to the AVR device
when turning the AVR on.

On the JP1.3 extenders I use Dev_TV, Set_Vol or Dev_AUX, Set_Vol in
macros to switch them on the fly.

I guess I could Multiplex but I am hoping there is a better way.
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ElizabethD
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. Yours is a different design requirement than I understood from your first post, one tied to turning receiver on and off and doing equivalent of Dev_TV, Set_Vol if toadTog belongs to AUD device right inside that toadTog. Can't do that?
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jeajea



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
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Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can tell the extender has neither Dev_xxx nor Set_VOL
macro “buttons”. Instead of Dev_xxx it uses device buttons (TV, PVR,
DVD,EXTRA, TV2 …) like a remote without an extender. It uses activities
but only has four activities.
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jeajea



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have multiplex working for volume on the fly switching.

Initially both the AVR and TV devices are set to the TV.

For an off to on transition you need to multiplex to the AVR before the
power button.

For on to off the power button needs to be before the multiplex to TV.

It is actually simpler than what I currently use for JP1.3 extenders.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, I see that you have found a solution but it is not ideal. As the extender manual explains, Multiplex has the same effect as device setup by direct entry of the new setup code from the keypad. It is better to use a ToadTog to avoid the need for the remote to change the setup code.

You were trying to change the action of the Volume buttons by putting something in the macros of a ToadTog you use for switching the AVR on and off. That isn't the right way to do it. Remember that you can set several ToadTogs to use the same toggle number. So on the volume keys you put ToadTogs that use the toggle number of the AVR On/Off toggle. Set the Toggle Condition to "Test Only". These buttons will then not affect the AVR state but you can put two macros on each button, one used when the AVR is ON, the other when it is OFF. Create four keymoves on phantom buttons, for volume up/down on TV and AVR. Use these phantom buttons in the four macros you now have on the two volume buttons, and you are done.

To answer your other questions, you asked above about the "Shift" available for use in macros. From the keypad you can send any signal by pressing Shift (i.e. the List button) twice then entering the 5-digit EFC. In a macro you can enter a single shift before a digit by using the "Add Shift" button, but to enter Shift twice you need to use the explicit "Shift" entry. You also ask if RMIR should block putting a macro on a device button. Probably. However, for many remotes, RMIR permits actions that are either meaningless or have no effect. Remotes are complex beasts. RMIR (and the writers of RDFs that describe the remote to it) cannot police every restriction they impose. It errs on the side of permitting things that might have no effect rather than prohibiting things that are potentially useful. I hope that seems reasonable to you.
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tranx



Joined: 13 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: My URC-6440 extender / RMIR questions Reply with quote

(I later found that mathdon posted while I was still editing Smile )
jeajea wrote:
RMIR v2.03 Alpha 28 build 19

Is it possible change the device used for volume an mute with a macro? If
my AV receiver is on I want to use it for volume control. If the AVR is off I
want to use my TV for volume control. I can use a toadtog to track the
AVR ON/OFF state but I haven’t figured out how to switch devices with a
macro.
I believe that DSMs for applying the Receiver's volume controls to Receiver device's volume buttons would do it.
Quote:
There is a button “Shift” available to use in macros. What does it do/how would I use it?
In the Macro editing page: Instead of clicking the button 'Add' e.g. with Red2 (which means 'shift Red') selected, clicking the button 'Add Shift' button with Red selected would do the same thing, adding Red2 to the sequence of commands in the macro being edited.
Quote:
The extender manual indicate macros cannot be assigned to a device button (which makes sense) but RMIR allows you to assign a macro to a device button. Is this something the RMIR should block?
I think so because you must have found that such Macros, Special Functions, and Keymoves do not work, while they may appear to have been assigned. [edit: but see the good reasons given above by mathdon]
Because of this limitation of 6440 it may be more convenient to use ordinary buttons or the combo buttons, because they can have things assigned to them, for changing the current device mode along with whatever else may be required. As usual, DSMs on those buttons could do something different, if needed, according to the current mode. Then the device buttons may only need to be used occasionally but in this context, in the Extender Manual, the order of priority for functions and the DCSave and DCRestore functions might be worth another look.
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jeajea



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: volume only sent once Reply with quote

Maybe I did something wrong but volume is only sent once even if you hold
down the button. Sad Sad Device specific macros have the same problem.

My zipped RMIR and jpg files

http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=13290
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will look at the file but meanwhile is it the AVRdevice, or is it the TVdevice, or is it both devices, which send the volume commands once when a button is held down?
and/or is there still a problem in device mode when using default/conventional assignments on the buttons of the relevant device/s?
- In the latter case an expert may be able to suggest some changes.

If it is only in a macro that a volume command is sent once when button is held down, you could try putting that as the last item in the macro, which may allow it be repeated while the button is held down
or
try putting the required device and channel changing inputs etc on a combo/activity button, using DC restore at the end (10.3 in the Manual), and set that activity's volume group to the required device.
or
Load a duplicate TV device upgrade (with setup code changed to something unique, say 2011) with a different to the currently unused PVR2 device and try keymoves to PVR2's volume controls, from the AVRdevice


Last edited by tranx on Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: volume only sent once Reply with quote

jeajea wrote:
Maybe I did something wrong but volume is only sent once even if you hold
down the button. Sad Sad Device specific macros have the same problem.

Oops Embarassed . You are right. In many extenders the final button of a macro repeats for as long as the macro button is held. This does not happen in unextended remotes. As you have observed, Jim, the URC-6440 with extender is in fact an enhanced unextended remote using the hardware of the URC-6440 rather than an extender in the conventional sense. As a result, like other unextended remotes, the final button of a macro is sent for 3 repeats just like all the other buttons of the macro, regardless of how long it is held.

So it seems that the multiplex method you found is, at least at present, the only way you will be able to switch the volume device while retaining the repeat action. Maybe sometime I will do a new version of the extender which does repeat the final button of a macro, but don't hold your breath. It is not top of my priority list, I'm afraid.
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CEC might help. With those settings on, in our set up the Tv can sense any Hdmi and optical outputs from the HomeTheatre/Receiver, automatically to allow the TV's own sound controls to operate those of the HomeTheatre/Receiver, if that is on.

It also switches the Tv HDMI to video input from the receiver, which for watching the Tv has to be corrected in the 'surround sound on' macro, but not in that for 'surround sound off'.
No other device is affected by CEC, which otherwise could also have helped with the Tv's HDMI switching.
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jeajea



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: will multipex damage the remote? Reply with quote

What is the down side of using multiplex? Will it eventually damage the
remote?

My current plan is to use the 6440 when the AVR is on and a different
remote when the AVR is off

If the 6440 had a lot more activities that would eliminate the need for a
second remote (maybe “text” followed by a single digit to select one of ten
activities.

I don’t know how to make CEC work for if it will work with my equipment.
I have a Vizio SV420M TV that has no mention of CEC in its manual.

I have an Onkyo TX-NR609 AVR that does support CEC.

I have a Monoprice HDX-401TA 4 port HDMI switch that is left on.

The output of the switch is connected to the TVs HDMI 3 port.

The TV digit audio out is connected to an input of the AVR. It pass up to
5.1 audio to the AVR

The out of the AVR is connected to Input 1 of the switch. I had planned to
connect the AVR output to the TV and the switch output to an input of the
AVR. However, the AVR HDMI through (when off) doesn’t work right when
it is connected directly to the TV (video but no audio). HDMI through does
work with the switch between the TV and AVR.

With this configuration any device connect via HDMI to the AVR can use the
TV speakers when the AVR is off.

Even jf I connect the AVR directly to the TV the I don’t see how the TV can
control the AVR volume.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeajea wrote:
What is the down side of using multiplex? Will it eventually damage the
remote?

Multiplex (on the URC-6440 extender) switches setup codes in the same way as entering a new setup code through the keypad in Setup mode, so it rewrites one block (512 bytes) of flash. I've just searched for flash memory endurance on the web and have found posts suggesting the typical endurance is 10,000 write cycles. So if you switch the AVR on and off once daily with multiplex, you might wear it out in 25 years or so.

Quote:
If the 6440 had a lot more activities that would eliminate the need for a
second remote (maybe “text” followed by a single digit to select one of ten
activities.

Sorry, in your dreams Very Happy . If you want virtually unlimited activities with an RMIR-supported remote, get an XSight Touch or XSight Color. On those, you create and name your own activities and select them on an LED screen, so they are not limited by the number of buttons.

Quote:
Even jf I connect the AVR directly to the TV the I don’t see how the TV can
control the AVR volume.

If both TV and AVR support CEC then it can do. The HDMI cable supports bi-directional signals between the two devices. I have a Toshiba TV and an Onkyo AVR. My remote sends On/Off, Volume+/- and Mute signals only to the TV, which then turns the AVR on and off as well and passes the volume commands to the AVR.
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