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URC9910 - Help with understanding learned codes

 
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easycreep



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: URC9910 - Help with understanding learned codes Reply with quote

Ok, so far so good. I've been reading like mad on how to get the JP1 stuff going, and so far I've got it working. I won't say I understand 100% what's going on yet, but everything seems to be OK.

However my next big step is to program my Adcom audio equipment (my whole reason for going JP1 to begin with). I have a Tuner/Pre-Amp and a CD player. I have the original remotes, and started by learning the IR into the 9910. I have downloaded the 9910 into IR.exe, but now I'm not quite sure what to do with that info. There is really no "brand" listed for the commands. I'm not sure how to move this into KM? If there is a faq or how-to I missed for this, please just point me there.

Thanks!
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jamesgammel
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look in the top right box as you click on each learned button. Each should show a protocol, device(s), and OBC and EFC values. You'll need those to enter into KM on the setup page.(EFC/OBC's on functions page).

Jim
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johnsfine
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Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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Location: Bedford, MA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim is right that the best method is to get the Protocol name, device number, subdevice if present, and either OBC or EFC for each command and use those to make a new upgrade in KM or RM.

There is a IR data for several Adcom device at
http://ir.premisesystems.com/search.aspx?m=ADCOM
which can be decoded with the IrTool program. And other Adcom devices at
http://remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=devices&br=adcom&fc=
which can be decoded with the DecodeCCF program.

Decoding the learned signals from your own remote is probably simpler. You might want to look at the other sources in case some similar model has commands on its remote that your remote lacks, but which work on your device.

Most of those Adcom devices have commands using the NEC1 protocol device 26 with no subdevice. But they are inconsistent between models about which command numbers do which functions. Also a few of the commands are in NEC2 protocol. You might need to test for the subtle behavior differences that tell whether NEC1 or NEC2 (or in rare cases a mix of them) is best for your device. There is also at least one Adcom device with NEC2 device 26 where some commands have subdevice 232.

There are also Adcom devices using Aiwa protocol device 81, subdevice 0. Possibly those are Adcom just puting their brand name on some other company's product.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took a closer look at the Adcom files at RC. There are a couple issues related to their mixture of NEC1 and NEC2 protocols.

The Vol+ and Vol- commands use NEC2 protocol but seem to vary the initial timing, which casuses a learning remote to learn too many frames of the signal before the signal settles into a stable repeat. Having too many frames is a problem for the learned signal but no problem once you make an upgrade. However, the upgrade won't duplicate Adcom's strange initial timing. That probably will cause a subtle difference in behavior. After the upgrade a very short or a long press of the 9910's vol key should duplicate the behavior of a similar very short or long press of the orriginal, but a moderately short press (around 1/5 to 1/2 of a second) may change the volume significantly more or less than the same length press of the orriginal (but not as much as any very short press of the badly learned signal).

Adcom seems to use NEC2 protocol for Vol+ and Vol- and FF and REW, etc. and those keys probably wouldn't work right with NEC1 protocol. They seem to use NEC1 protocol for digits and those probably wouldn't work right with NEC2. Surprisingly they use NEC2 for play and stop, which I'd expect to be the same as digits. I suspect play and stop would work with NEC1 even though (at least a couple) Adcom remotes send NEC2,

There is a way in KM to tell the 9910 that most keys in a setup code are NEC1 but a few are NEC2. I forget how you do that. Maybe Rob or another expert will jump in and remind us. You don't get to choose which keys are NEC2 vs. NEC1. The remote chooses. I think Vol+ and FF, etc. would be NEC2 but play and stop would be NEC1.

If you really need control over which keys are NEC1 vs. NEC2, you might make two upgrades, one with the buttons sheet filled in for all the NEC1 signals and one with the buttons sheet empty to use as a base for Keymoves for all the NEC2 signals.
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The Robman
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Joined: 01 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey John,
Could you email me a ccf file that clearly shows the mix of NEC1 and NEC2, I don't think I've ever heard of such a situation before.

Could it really be that some buttons just don't repeat whereas others do?

I don't think there's any provision built into the $005A protocol to handle an NEC1/NEC2 mix (I'll check to be sure), so if this device really does need a mixture of the two, we'd have to write a special combo protocol to handle that. If the only buttons that need special handling are testable buttons (like VOL, etc) it could still be a single byte protocol, but if the user needs the ability to pick and chose, it would have to be a 2-byte protocol.
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johnsfine
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This CCF has the NEC1 / NEC2 mix pretty clearly
Remote Central file

It really is NEC1 and NEC2 mixed. The NEC1 signals really have the NEC1 style repeat part and the NEC2 really repeat the whole frame.

I was pretty sure the 5A protocol has a parm bit to support that but I don't have time now to check it. If I'm wrong or if that support doesn't quite fit the situation, I think two upgrades and some KeyMoves would be much easier than a combo protocol. I doubt that many keys would NEED the NEC2.

Of course, pending an answer from the originator of this topic, we don't know for sure that the device in question has this issue, just that some Adcom devices do.
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John is right on all counts. I checked the Adcom file that John linked to and it definitely does use NEC2 for a select few buttons and NEC1 for the rest.

The NEC2 buttons in that file are VOL +/-, TRACK +/-, REWIND, FFWD, PLAY and STOP.

There is a control bit that you can use with $005A to make the "repeatable" buttons use NEC2 and the rest use NEC1, that bit is bit3. The repeatable buttons are VOL +/-, CH +/-, REW and FFWD. So, if you program the TRACK functions to the CH buttons, that only leaves PLAY and STOP out in the cold.

With the NEC protocol, it's OK to send an NEC1 signal to a device expecting NEC2, but not the other way around. The only problem with sending an NEC1 signal to a device that expects NEC2 is that the buttons won't repeat. So, using NEC1 for PLAY and STOP (which are not really repeatable buttons) should not cause a problem.

So, enough rambling, I'm guessing that you want to know how to set up KM to send the right signal, right? Simple, select NEC1 and then enter a parm value of "08". Enter whatever device code that IR.exe reported to you (which I'm guessing is 26).

Btw, I've just updated my fully commented 5A protocol notes over at Yahoo.
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easycreep



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 11:13 am    Post subject: Hey, it works! Reply with quote

Ok, to be honest you guys got me a bit confused with the NEC1 and NEC2 mixing. However I think it was because you were looking at an Adcom file that wasn't for my equipment. I have a GTP500 which is a combination tuner/preamp and a GCD575 which is a CD player. What I ended up doing was learning the codes into IR.exe, then looking at the device code, etc. When I originally saw weird things like "F12" for the device name I thought that seemed weird. The GTP500 is "F12" device code 7. The GCD575 is NEC1 device 26. I did not program all the "extended" functions of the CD remote. Like A-B, bla, bla, bla. It's stuff I never use, and even if I did map it, I'd be sure to forget which key did what.

However, now that I've mapped these... I get to feel good and upload them in case another crazy like me has this gear.

The programming went great, and the remote is working very well. However I now have some questions moving towards more advanced programming.

A. What the hell does "shifted" mean? I can't figure out which key would be the "shift" key.

B. Discrete codes - I guess these would be nice to setup macros, BUT... see next question

C. Macros - while I can see the advantage, it looks like a Macro takes up a button in ALL modes. So once I set a macro to that button I loose it everywhere else? If so, maybe only 1 or 2 macros for me. (Which really brought me to the shift question above)
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The Robman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hey, it works! Reply with quote

easycreep wrote:
Ok, to be honest you guys got me a bit confused with the NEC1 and NEC2 mixing. However I think it was because you were looking at an Adcom file that wasn't for my equipment. I have a GTP500 which is a combination tuner/preamp and a GCD575 which is a CD player. What I ended up doing was learning the codes into IR.exe, then looking at the device code, etc. When I originally saw weird things like "F12" for the device name I thought that seemed weird. The GTP500 is "F12" device code 7. The GCD575 is NEC1 device 26.


Nuff said, my advice on how to mix NEC1 and NEC2 only applies to the NEC protocol. If you find that certain repeating buttons don't repeat properly using F12, we will have to take anothe rlook at it.

easycreep wrote:

I did not program all the "extended" functions of the CD remote. Like A-B, bla, bla, bla. It's stuff I never use, and even if I did map it, I'd be sure to forget which key did what.
However, now that I've mapped these... I get to feel good and upload them in case another crazy like me has this gear.


The general rule for creating KM (or RM) files is not necessarily to map every function to real buttons, but you should include every function in the Functions list, as this gives the next person the opportunity to map them if they need them.

easycreep wrote:

The programming went great, and the remote is working very well. However I now have some questions moving towards more advanced programming.

A. What the hell does "shifted" mean? I can't figure out which key would be the "shift" key.


The SHIFT button is the SETUP button (aka SET, MAGIC, green P, etc).
easycreep wrote:

B. Discrete codes - I guess these would be nice to setup macros, BUT... see next question

C. Macros - while I can see the advantage, it looks like a Macro takes up a button in ALL modes. So once I set a macro to that button I loose it everywhere else? If so, maybe only 1 or 2 macros for me. (Which really brought me to the shift question above)


Regular macros are active in all modes. On my remote shift/POWER will turn everything off, for example. Shift/DVD will turn on the DVD player and any other devices needed to watch a DVD. If you want to program a macro and have it only available in one mode, use a DSM (Device Specific Macro) availabel in the Special Protocols folder. Or, override the macro in the modes where you don't want it active with keymoves.
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jon_armstrong
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Joined: 03 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Hey, it works! Reply with quote

easycreep wrote:
...
A. What the hell does "shifted" mean? I can't figure out which key would be the "shift" key.


Usually the setup button.

Quote:

B. Discrete codes - I guess these would be nice to setup macros, BUT... see next question

C. Macros - while I can see the advantage, it looks like a Macro takes up a button in ALL modes. So once I set a macro to that button I loose it everywhere else? If so, maybe only 1 or 2 macros for me. (Which really brought me to the shift question above)


In the 9910 you can assign macros to a device button. So typically if you have discrete commands then you would assign a macro something like the following to the DVD button:

1. turn on the TV
2. set the video input on the tv
3. turn on the Receiver
4. set the audio input to DVD
5. turn on the DVD player
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easycreep



Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:04 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I've got everything setup great now. I'm sure after I play with it for a while I'll think of more things I want to do. Very Happy But I'm happy now.

Thanks a ton for all the information. At least I felt like I gave a little back adding the KM files.
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