JP1 Remotes

[Ed]

Hi all,

I'm getting ready to set up an Atlas OCAP PVR 3033 JP1.3 (Black) remote. I've set up several remotes over the years, with and without extenders, so I have a pretty solid understanding how to do it, but I'm still a novice compared to most folks here.

Anyway, I've done some research on this and other JP1.3 remotes and I've become intrigued by the FAV/SCAN and Multi-macro functionality. (I wish I would have had this functionality earlier this fall to scan selected college football games.) I'd like to try to access this functionality when I program this new remote. I understood from my research that both FAV/SCAN and Multi-macro functionality were supported, perhaps "initially", in both RMIR and IR.exe. Am I correct?

When I downloaded the remote's base configuration (out of the box) with IR.exe, there was no FAV/SCAN tab. I had the same result in RMIR, so I'm guessing that FAV/SCAN functionality is not supported by this remote unless it's extended, even though it has a "FAV" button. Is that correct?

Next, I went to the Macro tab in IR.exe. I selected "F1" as the "target" key of the macro, intending to use it to define a multi-macro, but I couldn't figure out how to separate the mulitple macros I wanted to invoke with this key -- there is no add or insert pause option when defining the macro. F1 is one of the buttons on this remote that is supposed to accept multi-macros. Is there something I'm missing?

I've gotten used to extenders, and I really like the way they speed up macros and don't care about the associated loss of learning functionality. I noticed that the documentation for Common JP1.3 Extender V3 indicates that it does not support multi-macros, but it does support FAV/SCAN. I'm thinking that means if I want to have "channel looping" functionality on this remote if I use an extender, I'm limited to FAV/SCAN approach, where looping continues until I press another key on the remote. That's fine. It also looks like if I want to access FAV/SCAN functionality, I need to use IR.exe, not RMIR. Do I have this right?

I really enjoy working on this stuff and I appreciate everyone's hard work and advice.

[ElizabethD]

Not familiar with the new tools, such as common extender you mentioned, but I can tell you some ancient hitory (from 2010-2011) which I just tried to reconstruct which isn't easy, most of the stuff reads like a foreign language at this point.
So I hope this will point you in the right direction regardless of my confusion.

Remote is Atlas 1056B01 it's a 5 device OCAP, TimeWarner issue.
I used KM(9.21) where I had to build Pause protocol $1FB. Not sure if it was for FAV or something else. Likely you can do the same in the current RMIR.
I used and just ran IR 8.03 where FAV/Scan can be built. And into which the Pause protocol got put in (can't recall why).
Unclemiltie's Extender was v2.11.
RDF file was "3A333A33 (Atlas OCAP URC-1056 JP1.3 (Black)_(Silver) extender V2.11).rdf", with FAV key $22, you'll see it in two places.

FAV works. Cycles through little macros. You can press FAV, say, twice, do other things, next press takes you do the third macro.
After the end of the list, next FAV press starts on the first macro - what you called "channel looping" and in one of my tests I was "device looping".
Ignore the device at the bottom of the screen, it's irrelevant. Sometimes you can select <None> there or just leave it alone.
Each macro ends with {PAUSE} as you build it using the "Add Pause" button. Something like this simple setup of five macros:

[mathdon]

I have never had a remote with multimacro or Fav/Scan functionality, so no practical experience but I have a couple of comments that might be helpful.
First, as far as I am aware, there are no setup procedures that can be done with IR.exe that cannot also be done with RMIR. If there are, I would like to know of them. Second, to create a multimacro in RMIR (not sure about IR.exe) you just add several macros in the Macros tab, all with the same key, in the order you want them to act in the remote. In your unextended remote the buttons that support mutimacros are F1, F2 and OnDemand. Just open the RDF and look for the [Multimacros] section to see the list. It does not appear, from the RDF, that the unextended remote has Fav/Scan support. There will be a FavKey entry in the [General] section of the RDF if it is supported, and it is there for the extender but not the unextended remote.
_________________
Graham

[Ed]

I've not yet installed the extender on this remote, but I went to the extended remote RDF file, and I see an entry for FavKey (FavKey=$22,$1E,15,5) in the General section, then again in the Buttons section ("fav/scan":FAV=$22). I really don't know what this means except, as you said, Liz, I should be able to get Fav/Scan to work when I install the extender. When I look at the RDF file for the unextended remote, there is no entry in the General section, but there is the same entry in the Buttons section. I conclude that this means that Fav/Scan is not supported in the unextended remote, even thought the remote has a "FAV" key. Indeed, when I open my current "base configuration" file in IR.exe, there is no Fav/Scan tab.

I see, Graham, that the RDF file for the unextended remote has a MultiMacros section after the Buttons section, indicating that the unextended remote supports multi-macros. I hadn't realized that all I have to do to use this functionality was to define multiple macros on the same key. I was expecting an interface similar to that for Fav/Scan. Regardless, I'll try setting up multi-macros as I start my project. In looking at the RDF for the extended remote, there is no MultiMacro section, indicating that multi-macro support isn't available. Moreover, the extender documentation clearly says that there is no support for multi-macros. As noted, the extended remote does support Fav/Scan, which, functionally, seems very similar, if not exactly the same.

I remember seeing somewhere that Fav/Scan was not yet implemented in RMIR, so maybe this is a setup procedure that can be done in IR.exe but not RMIR. I have an RCRP05BR with extender 1.05 installed, so I thought I'd have a look in both IR and RMIR. When I open the .rmir file in RMIR, there is no Fav/Scan tab. I saved the file as an .ir file and then opened it in IR. A Fav/Scan tab appeared in IR.exe. That suggests that if you want to use Fav/Scan, you need to use IR.

Anyway, it appears that Fav/Scan and multi-macros are almost equivalent, functionally. I can use Fav/Scan in the extended remote by using IR, or I can use multi-macros in either IR or RMIR in an unextended remote. I'll forge ahead and see what happens.

Thank you, Liz and Graham, for your help.

Ed

[mathdon]

[Ed]

Thanks Graham. Let me know if I can help.

Ed

[mathdon]

Ed, please try RMIR v2.03 Alpha 26a.

My implementation of Fav/Scan for RMIR copied that in IR.exe, but I find that I had not quite got correct the conditions under which the tab should appear. I think I have corrected this now in Alpha 26a, so please try it and let me know.
_________________
Graham

[Ed]

Hi Graham,

I tried Alpha v2.03 Alpha 26a and when I open the .rmir file for my extended RCRP05BR, the Fav/Scan tab does appear, where it did not on version v2.02a, which I had been using. I haven't actually tried to program the FAV key yet to see if I can get the functionality to work. I'll have a look at that later.

Now I know that I shouldn't need IR to do anything that I had planned to do.

Thanks for your help!

Ed

[mathdon]

I have posted a revised version of RMIR v2.03 Alpha 26a in which the only file changed is protocols.ini. The original release contained an updated version of protocols.ini that unfortunately appears to cause a problem with NEC protocols. This revision returns the entries for NEC protocols to their original form but keeps the other revisions that were included. My apologies to those who downloaded the version originally posted.
_________________
Graham

[ElizabethD]

If I may interrupt with more obsolete knowledge...
My scribbles indicate that in IR 8.03 was an issue with the FAV header bytes when I played with Atlas and RCA-RCRP05B. So if you, Graham, copied the IR code there maybe a problem.
First byte is $22=FAV button number, is ok.
Left nibble of the second byte is $3=FAV and is ok.
Right nibble was not ok. It is an irrelevant device from the bottom of the IR screen. Caused FAV sequence to cut out earlier than coded when device# was lower than number of macros, and go nuts if was higher.
It should be number of macros in the FAV sequence (just count pauses), and I had to make the change smack on the Raw Data before pushing to the remotes.
Third byte of the header is the length of the Fav job and is correct.

I hope I'm correct in this note and Merry Christmas, Happy holidays and a good New Year to you.
_________________
Liz
Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride

[mathdon]

Thanks, Liz, for that info. Good to have you active again in this forum. You write

[Ed]

I'd like to help, but when folks start talking about bytes and nybbles, I know I'm in over my head! Regardless, if you think there is something I can do to help, let me know.

I've read quite a bit here on this topic (I don't underestand a lot of it), including the thread you reference, Graham, and from my (user?) perspective, there seems to be a couple things going on. First, UEIC has apparently replaced the Fav/Scan concept with multi-macros on their remotes, maybe with the advent of JP1.x remotes? Meanwhile, our extender writers have managed to continue supporting Fav/Scan, perhaps with a bug (above), but haven't had the time to support the newer multi-macro concept, perhaps to replace Fav/Scan.

Second, DVR and PVR devices have "favorites" menus, and hence having a "FAV" button on a remote just to activate that menu is useful. Moreover, I discovered with my (older) dish VIP 622 receiver that I can define up to four favorite channel lists and cycle through whatever list is "active" by pressing channel up or down on the remote (I wish I had tried this during the college football season). To the extent this "channel looping" functionality is present on devices, the value of having it on the remotes is reduced, I suppose. On the other hand, if a user wants to do something other than "channel looping", perhaps "device looping", as Liz points out, it needs to be on the remote. I guess the point here might be that fixing Fav/Scan and/or implementing multi-macros in extenders is a lower-priority item for the developers here? That's certainly not for me to decide, but it's what I'm sensing.

I still want to fiddle around with Fav/Scan and multi-macros, so I plan to stay tuned in to ongoing developments.

Thanks very much for the great support.

Ed

[ElizabethD]

Arrrggghhhh!
You're so right. I did confuse IR and extenders.
My issues 4 yrs ago (!) were about extended Atlas and RCA. I don't recall playing with unextended.
Atlas: was Atlas Extender V2.11.zip
RCA: was RCA RCRP05B Extender V1.04.zip
Both by Bill. And Ed indicates there's a new version which might be different anyway.
I also have 8910 extender, where it's ok, that nibble holds a number of 5-byte macros. All macros are 5 bytes long. Whereas in Atlas and RCA, Bill was allowing variable length macros.

I guess you're off the hook now
_________________
Liz
Tweeking 8910, HTPro/9811, C7-7800, 6131o, 6131n, AtlasOCAP-1056B01, RCA-RCRP05B and enjoying the ride

[mathdon]

Ed, if you are willing to install the common extender in your Atlas remote, you can help me to test Fav/Scan setup in RMIR. I have posted RMIR v2.03 Alpha 26b in the Diagnosis Area, as it contains an experimental option that you can test.

If you are willing to do this, make sure you read the stuff in the ReadMe of the common extender package about how Fav/Scan operates. It is, apparently, different from the way in which it worked in earlier extenders. You would set Fav/Scan up in the Fav/Scan tab of RMIR, with a single entry in which the various macros (max 5 keys each) are separated by a {pause}. Don't create more than one entry, even though RMIR allows it. The "Scan device" drop-down box is apparently irrelevant in this extender. The device that the Fav macros operate is set on the General tab in the "Other settings" box, where there is an entry for "Fav device".

Here is the test. Before you begin, download RMIR pointed to above. Don't try to use the extender with Alpha 26a as there is an issue with reading the RDF that I have resolved in Alpha 26b. But more important is that I have added a new optional entry for the [General] section of the RDF. If you set up a Fav/Scan with the RDF as supplied in the extender package, it will be set up in the way that Liz says failed with her earlier version of the extender. If you add the following entry into the RDF [General] section, and I suggest putting it under the FavKey entry:

[Ed]

I'd be happy to do this, Graham. I haven't started my Atlas project yet, so I have some setting up to do and it might take a day or two to complete the test. Is that OK?

One thing I can do quickly is test the new code out in my RCRP05BR, which is running its extender 1.05 (not the common JP1.3 extender). I could make the change to its RDF and run it through the new code with macros on the FAV key. I understand if you don't think this will be helpful but wanted to offer it up because I can do it more quickly than with the Atlas and the common extender.

Thanks,

Ed