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RMIR Simpleset Support
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have now posted URC-6440 Extender v0.06. Note that to install and use this version to its full extent, it needs RMIR v2.03 Alpha 25e which I have also just posted. The changes to Alpha 25d affect nothing other than its use with this extender.

In comparison with v0.05, this version allows nested macros, adds the Pause special function, adds 15 phantom buttons, facilities for early exit from a pause or from nested macros and a facility for saving and restoring the device/combo settings within a macro. More details are given in the ReadMe included in the package.

I know that the ReadMe is getting out of hand. It started out as a simple .txt file for the original extender version that did nothing more than add a shift key. I will produce a proper manual for the extended remote as a PDF file when I have time, but that will have to wait till the extender is reasonably stable. At present it is growing day by day. I still have more features that I would like to add if it proves feasible.
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tranx



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the interesting new package! So far having fun with v006 but also a bit of trouble. Hope I have not made mistakes with installation again but did it twice. Here are my first efforts: http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=12941

At the end of the special functions list are:
TV's ShiftPhantom1 is 0.5 secs
Phantom10 is a 10 sec pause

Phantom13 is down;ShiftPhantom1
Phantom14 is Right;ShiftPhantom1
Phantom15 is Up;ShiftPhantom1

Shift8 is Phantoms 13,14,15,14,13,14,15,14,13,14,15 etc. to move down, right, up, right through a two-row list of recordings on TV's external hard drive.
down,right,up,right,down,right,up,right,down, right etc. with an intended 0.5secs pause over each recording but the 'Right' commands (phantom14's) do not work

Holding Pause does successfully exit the whole nested macro, but 0.5secs is not enough to see if another key cuts it short and then continues with the next mini-macros (hence the try with nested macros and 10 secs on Shift0, below)

Unshifted 8 is a nested macro with 5xPhantom14's, but the cursor only moves 3 times.

Shift0 is like Shift8 but has a 10 sec pause as the second macro
- the phantom13 (down,0.5secs) might be working but the following 10 sec pause definitely does not (0.5 secs is too short to tell) so pressing another button still could not be tested properly to see if it exits the current macro early.
Phantoms 13,15 do not work, while in this example the cursor does move to the right 5 times (due to 5xPhantom14) i.e. unlike unshifted8, where it is 13 and 15 which do work

A little disappointed Confused by the safety measures which currently seem also to affect macros placed on the combo buttons themselves, if they are nested (and wondered if that part at least is curable?), but was pleased to find that ordinary macros do still work there. After all infinite Loops could also occur with macros on the other buttons, which should quickly be spotted and fixed by the user, so please don't take them away too Cool

One thought did occur, that perhaps it could be mainly the delays playing up which affects the other features?
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tranx



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS
It seems odd that the pauses on phantom1 (1sec) and on shift-phantom (0.5sec) seem to work fine when they are included in the macros on the buttons Menu and Green (to navigate through various screens to the recordings on the TV's external hard drive, or to go to iPlayer). In particular they do not interfere with the effectiveness of the direction commands which follow them.

I wonder if perhaps it is because, in those cases, the delays are acting as functions within a macro, rather than being included in macros which are themselves nested (in the other examples).
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry for the trouble you have had with Extender 0.06, tranx. Please try URC-6440 Extender v0.07.

All the missing steps in your macros were due to one bug. This was an issue with the use of shifted buttons in macros that I had not foreseen. It should be fixed in v0.07. Certainly, in my testing, the malfunctioning macros that you specifically describe all worked as intended.

You do not spell out the problems that you had with macros on combo buttons as a result of the "safety measures" to stop endless looping. However, I have now taken out those "safety measures", so if you are right about the cause, those problems too should be solved.

I put in those measures before I thought about creating the DCSave and DCRestore functions. If you now end a macro on a combo button with the button itself, as I previously suggested, you will now get an endless loop. If such a macro contains a device button, you need now to end it with DCRestore in order to enter combo mode. You need a DCRestore at the end of the WatchTV macro in the file you posted, for it to work properly. But if you do enter an endless loop, holding down Pause will in any case terminate it.

Many thanks for your thorough testing. I hope all is now well with version 0.07, but if not then please let me know. You wrote "if they are nested (and wondered if that part at least is curable?)", which had an air of despair about it. I do get bugs in my software, but I can also fix them, so never despair! Very Happy
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tranx



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCSave and DCRestore is a neat solution and Glad the safety measures were just left overs Very Happy Will try out v0.07 asap.
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tranx



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re. "You need a DCRestore at the end of the WatchTV macro in the file you posted, for it to work properly". Happy that one still works without DCRestore, just as I was thankful that it already worked ok with 006.

It looks like a new macro because it contains 'pause's (which are ineffective TV functions rather than being the new Timed Pause special functions). It was left over from previous versions and I believe that it was unaffected because it is not really a nested macro and doesn't mention, or need to refer to, the WatchTV button itself, it just happens to be on it. You will have gathered I am keen on these 'combo' buttons and thanks for arranging for them still to serve as device selection buttons, and also to have potential for doing things other than combo selection.

Very nice improvement to the nested macros on TV's shift0, shift8 and 8, where all the direction commands work as expected.

Also, in shift0, the 10 sec pause is interrupted by any key, very neat too.

However I think that holding the Shift button (List) does not [edit]now exit the remainder of any of those nested macros.
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yaworski



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham,

I have an idea for RMIR function that would be really great when dealing with SimpleSet remotes and maybe even other in the future. SimpleSet has so much free space in the Flash that it's mostly wasted. On the other hand we need to save remote's config to rmir file to retain all the custom function names in device upgrades etc. I was wondering if we could use the free space in the Flash to actually save a copy of rmir file in it. The problem would be how to determine the offset of the rmir data (fixed location or some other way to point to it - maybe new segment type which would be ignored by firmware with the address of the rmir data). That way the settings.bin saved from RMIR would retain all custom data that is not normally saved into the remote itself.
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tranx wrote:
However I think that holding the Shift button (List) does not [edit]now exit the remainder of any of those nested macros.

No, it wouldn't Very Happy . It's the Pause button you have to hold Laughing .
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tranx



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course! Yep it's working fine, brilliant improvement again.

Many thanks Laughing Laughing
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yaworski wrote:
SimpleSet has so much free space in the Flash that it's mostly wasted. ... I was wondering if we could use the free space in the Flash to actually save a copy of rmir file in it.

I don't think you've taken account of how large a .rmir file can be. The .rmir file tranx posted to show the problems he was having is 84KB. The entire flash area available for setup data in the URC-6440 is less than 10K, and when loaded, his setup data takes up nearly half of that. Setups that fill this data area are by no means unlikely. We had recently a user with an XSight Touch who had 151 learned signals in his setup. I imagine that would more than fill a URC-6440 Exclamation .
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yaworski



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mathdon wrote:
yaworski wrote:
SimpleSet has so much free space in the Flash that it's mostly wasted. ... I was wondering if we could use the free space in the Flash to actually save a copy of rmir file in it.

I don't think you've taken account of how large a .rmir file can be. The .rmir file tranx posted to show the problems he was having is 84KB. The entire flash area available for setup data in the URC-6440 is less than 10K, and when loaded, his setup data takes up nearly half of that. Setups that fill this data area are by no means unlikely. We had recently a user with an XSight Touch who had 151 learned signals in his setup. I imagine that would more than fill a URC-6440 :!: .


Hmmm that's a bummer. On the other hand I think most configs are not as that advanced (mine is actually pretty small, at least for now) and there is still enough space. Maybe copy of whole rmir file is too much, but some extra meta data could be helpful. RMIR knows how much free space is left on the device and how big the metadata is. There could be an option to enable saving metadata if there is enough space in the remote and just warn the user if metadata could not be stored because of too low free space. This is just something to think about in the future :).
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tranx



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With some more fiddling, the improvements in 6640extender v0.07 fit together very well. In particular the DCSave and DCRestore are handy with the nested macros, and the phantom buttons with the variable pause functions. The interruptible pauses, and exit from nested macros by holding the pause button, have proved invaluable. The 'smart' TV, which among other things has freeview and satellite tuners, has a few discretes but mainly requires an absurd amount of button bashing through menus, so now there can be a few more tweaks to alleviate that, but memory use has actually been reduced a little as a result of the new features. [Edited]Just for comparison http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=12945 What might be next mathdon?
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi mathdon. We habitually use Freeview, device TV1, mainly because for some reason the Tv recording more reliably onto the external hard drive with that, but in certain weather conditions reception can only be had on Freesat, device TV2. This causes a problem for our setup, involving which of two tuners is in use, either Freesat and Freeview. All the controls are the same it's just that the contents of the channel guide and the channel numbers are different. Unfortunately there are no discrete commands to switch between the tuners so navigation through menus is required each time.

The same button in both TV1 and TV2 has its own different DSM to switch either way, Freeview<>Freesat and TV1<>TV2 accordingly at the same time, which is fine. In that way the Devices are in synch with the tuners, but only as long as either TV1 or TV2 is the current device, as well as the last device in use. However, upon changing from a TV device to a device other another a TV one, the remote can't 'remember' which tuner (or TV1/TV2) was last configured on the Tv and the user doesn't always remember either Smile

I think this sort of thing might be done with 'toad togs' but the terminology used to configure them seems fiendishly obscure. It dawned that perhaps DCSave and DCRestore are doing part of what can be achieved with toad togs by saving device or combo modes automatically at the start of any macro, but without branching.

I think the automatic saving itself cancels the previously stored DC mode and just wondered whether, if the automatic action did not take place but DCSave could instead only be done by intentional configuration by the user, the stored value would remain available for repeated acess with DCRestore? ... could that be a simple way for the remote to keep track of a least one DC mode, such as either TV1 or TV2 together with Freeview or Freesat tuner respectively ...? There must have been a good reason for you to have it done it automatically, but had to ask!
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mathdon
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tranx, I haven't fathomed all the complications of the setup you have described, but here is what is planned. As far as DCSave and DCRestore is concerned, the automatic DCSave only occurs at the start of an outer macro, i.e. the one assigned to a key, not at the start of any macros nested inside it. The DCRestore remains available for repeated use throughout the macro, and the state to which it will restore is only changed by an explicit DCSave. Your suggestion of removing the implicit DCSave would only have any effect if your intention is for the saved state to be carried over from one outer macro to another. I'm not happy with that idea as it could cause macro errors for a user that would be very difficult to diagnose.

Anyway, you wanted this to do part of what can be done with ToadTogs. You will get real ToadTogs Very Happy , which are not as complicated as you seem to imagine. There are a small number of Special Functions that were developed for traditional extenders, of which DSM and Pause are two. The others are LKP, DKP, ToadTog and Multiplex.

LKP (Long Key Press) and DKP (Double Key Press) allow you to put two macros on a single button, selected by either a short or long press (LKP) or single or double press (DKP). The time that counts as long, or the time within which the double press must be made, is configurable up to a maximum of 2 seconds (on a key by key basis).

ToadTogs (there are 8 separate ToadTogs available) maintain a state (On or Off) in the remote. Again there are two macros for a ToadTog key. Which is sent depends on whether the current state is On or Off. You also specify whether you want the state to change when the key is pressed. So if you have a power function that is a toggle, you can construct discrete power actions as follows. For the ON key, if current state is Off, change it to On and send the toggle function, but if the current state is On, do nothing. Similarly for the OFF key, if current state is Off, do nothing but if it is On then change it to Off and send the toggle function. There are many other uses as well, but I think this was the original motivation.

Multiplex allows you to have a button that changes the setup code for a device. This can obviously be used to add further to the number of devices, but it can also be used for, say, an AV Receiver with several distinct zones. The original remote would have buttons to select the zone, which usually changes the device parameters for the protocol. By creating separate setup codes for each set of device parameters, you can use Multiplex to create keys that have the zone-switching capability of the original remote.

It seems to me that you should be able to achieve what you want with these various functions. I am intending to implement the remaining ones and that will complete the extender development. Not long to go now Very Happy .
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tranx



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mathdon, thank you. Very helpful in several ways: I dimly perceive that Multiplex might solve our problem, and that toasted toads might not be so impenetrable. Such a pity that will be 'it', but a lot more to play with and more to look out for Smile

Last edited by tranx on Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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