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URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:13 am    Post subject: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

Hi,

yesterday I installed the the extender onto my new 8060 and must say that it works very well. But IMHO there is a large deficiency here: It seems that not all keys can be used on a screen.

Is there a chance to get keys activated that are normally not illuminated on a screen?

I.e. I would like to have the 16:9 key available on the PVR screen.

Thanks,
Emil
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

egn wrote:
Hi,

yesterday I installed the the extender onto my new 8060 and must say that it works very well. But IMHO there is a large deficiency here: It seems that not all keys can be used on a screen.

Is there a chance to get keys activated that are normally not illuminated on a screen?

I.e. I would like to have the 16:9 key available on the PVR screen.

Thanks,
Emil
The buttons on all the Kameleons are controlled at the hardware level simply meaning that there is no way at the software level to change what buttons appear on each screen. Basically, the screen layouts you see in the documentation and/or on the unextended remote is what you get. I have no way to improve that. By the way, not being able to configure what buttons are on each screen is the biggest complaint on these remotes.

Now, if there are visible buttons on the screen that don't work I can fix that so let me know if that's the case.
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

Nils_Ekberg wrote:

The buttons on all the Kameleons are controlled at the hardware level simply meaning that there is no way at the software level to change what buttons appear on each screen. Basically, the screen layouts you see in the documentation and/or on the unextended remote is what you get. I have no way to improve that. By the way, not being able to configure what buttons are on each screen is the biggest complaint on these remotes.


Doing that by hardware would be really bad. Are you absolutely sure or is there a slight possibility that this selection is handled by some firmware function in ROM?

Nils_Ekberg wrote:

Now, if there are visible buttons on the screen that don't work I can fix that so let me know if that's the case.


Ok, I have one. Smile

When I select the PVR from Topfield with device code 1206 and install the extender, then I have no chance to setup the illuminated info button with a key move or a macro. I also tried to use a DSM, nothing works. This button works fine without extender and a keymove. When I press this button there is no IR signal coming out. BTW, I have progammed this SAT device to the TV button. Do you have any idea?

Thanks,
Emil
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

egn wrote:
Doing that by hardware would be really bad. Are you absolutely sure or is there a slight possibility that this selection is handled by some firmware function in ROM?
Yes


egn wrote:
When I select the PVR from Topfield with device code 1206 and install the extender, then I have no chance to setup the illuminated info button with a key move or a macro. I also tried to use a DSM, nothing works. This button works fine without extender and a keymove. When I press this button there is no IR signal coming out. BTW, I have progammed this SAT device to the TV button. Do you have any idea?
There is a possibility that when you map the SAT device to the TV button that I am still using the TV button map so I will have to check that out. It would seem to me though that there would be other buttons not working also. Reply to this and include a copy of the macro that is on the TV button.

Thanks
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has nothing to do with the device mapping. I now just installed a keymove from a another key on the remote and it seems to be that every 32 key press the signal is send.

I also discovered a further problem regarding ToadTog used in device macro. It doesn't seem to work whereas DiscreteON and DiscreteOFF to a M-key works fine. Pressing the TV button toggles the power state instead off just turning the TV on when it is off.

Code:

Device Buttons:
#   Device Button   Type   Code
1   SAT/CBL   SAT/CBL   1206
2   TV   SAT/CBL   1206
3   VCR   VCR   0226
4   DVD   DVD   0525
5   CD   SAT/CBL   1176
6   AUD   AUD   0176

Other Settings:
#   Setting   Value
1   T Device   TV
2   V Device   AUD
3   C Device   TV
4   M Device   TV
5   P Device   TV
6   O Device   TV
7   Shift Button Keycode   2
8   Alt Shift Button Keycode   2
9   Alt Shift   Xshift
10   Default SAT/CBL Screen   2
11   Default TV Screen   2
12   Default VCR Screen   0
13   Backlight Timer   120
14   Backlight Off Button Action   Ignore

Key Moves:
#   Bound Device   Bound Key   Device Button   Device Type   Setup Code   Hex Cmd   EFC or Key Name
1   SAT/CBL   Info   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $07    250
2   SAT/CBL   Key96   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $F7    117
3   SAT/CBL   PP   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $DF    180
4   SAT/CBL   Prev-Track   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $4F    056
5   SAT/CBL   VOL+   AUD   AUD   0176   $A7    247
6   SAT/CBL   VOL-   AUD   AUD   0176   $27    251
7   SAT/CBL   MUTE   AUD   AUD   0176   $C7    244
8   AUD   OK   <N/A>   TV   1103   $A5 $77 $18 $18    210* (Use Hex)
9   AUD   Menu   <N/A>   TV   1103   $94 $77 $18 $18    210* (Use Hex)
10   AUD   Guide   <N/A>   TV   1103   $A5 $77 $18 $18    210* (Use Hex)
11   VCR   Guide   <N/A>   TV   1103   $A5 $5B $18 $18    210* (Use Hex)
12   VCR   Menu   <N/A>   TV   1103   $94 $5B $18 $18    210* (Use Hex)
13   TV   SHIFT-DiscreteOFF   AUD   AUD   0176   $87    246
14   TV   SHIFT-DiscreteON   AUD   AUD   0176   $47    248
15   TV   DiscreteOFF   <N/A>   VCR   1800   $19 $C3    020* (Use Hex)
16   TV   DiscreteON   <N/A>   VCR   1800   $98 $C3    020* (Use Hex)
17   TV   XSHIFT-Power   <N/A>   TV   1505   $A8 $00    018* (Use Hex)
18   TV   Phantom1   <N/A>   TV   1106   $72 $3F $BF $83    022* (Use Hex)
19   TV   SHIFT-Power   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $AF    055
20   TV   CH+   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $00    018
21   TV   CH-   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $01    010
22   TV   -/--{>10}   <N/A>   TV   1103   $9F    182
23   TV   Next-Track   <N/A>   TV   1103   $A3    023
24   TV   Prev-Track   <N/A>   TV   1103   $A4    239
25   TV   Info   TV   SAT/CBL   1206   $07    250
26   TV   Phantom2   <N/A>   TV   2000   $14    114
27   TV   SHIFT-Phantom2   <N/A>   TV   2000   $18    210
28   TV   SHIFT-Phantom1   <N/A>   TV   1106   $71 $3B $BB    215* (Use Hex)

Macros:
#   Key Name   Keys
1   TV   V_AUD;T_TV;C_TV;M_TV;P_TV;O_TV;DiscreteON;SHIFT-DiscreteON
2   SHIFT-0   0
3   SHIFT-Next-Track   Yellow
4   SHIFT-Prev-Track   Green
5   XSHIFT-AV{input-select}   OK
6   Power   Phantom1
7   M4   SHIFT-Phantom1
8   SAT   P_SAT;M_SAT;C_SAT;T_SAT;O_SAT;V_AUD;DiscreteON;SHIFT-DiscreteON
9   AUD   M_AUD;C_AUD;V_AUD;T_AUD;O_AUD
10   VCR   P_VCR;M_VCR;C_VCR;T_VCR;O_VCR
11   DVD   P_DVD;M_DVD;C_DVD;T_DVD;O_DVD
12   CD   P_CD;M_CD;C_CD;T_CD;O_CD

Upgrade Devices:
TV: 1800
VCR: 1800
TV: 1103
TV: 1104
TV: 1106
TV: 2000

Upgrade Protocols:
Protocol: $0180
Protocol: $0181
Protocol: $01FC
Protocol: $01FB
Protocol: $01F9


Emil
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RichardP



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

egn wrote:

Ok, I have one. Smile

When I select the PVR from Topfield with device code 1206 and install the extender, then I have no chance to setup the illuminated info button with a key move or a macro. I also tried to use a DSM, nothing works. This button works fine without extender and a keymove. When I press this button there is no IR signal coming out. BTW, I have progammed this SAT device to the TV button. Do you have any idea?

Thanks,
Emil


Emil,

With the extended remote buttons that change their appearence but stay in the same physical location only have one Key Id. In your case the Pvr key is actually the Exit button so you should use this button for the Key move. In addition the pvr (exit button really) key in the extended remote will not chnage the screen that the remote displays, you will have to do that within a macro or DSM in conjunction with a ToadTog which causes this to happen only when the pvr screen is displayed. The screen display functionality is not ideal in the extended remote, I think its better with a pvr type SAT system to set the default screen to 2 so that all the available buttons are displayed from the start.

Hope this helps,

Richard
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RichardP



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 108
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

Nils_Ekberg wrote:
egn wrote:
Doing that by hardware would be really bad. Are you absolutely sure or is there a slight possibility that this selection is handled by some firmware function in ROM?
Yes


egn wrote:
When I select the PVR from Topfield with device code 1206 and install the extender, then I have no chance to setup the illuminated info button with a key move or a macro. I also tried to use a DSM, nothing works. This button works fine without extender and a keymove. When I press this button there is no IR signal coming out. BTW, I have progammed this SAT device to the TV button. Do you have any idea?
There is a possibility that when you map the SAT device to the TV button that I am still using the TV button map so I will have to check that out. It would seem to me though that there would be other buttons not working also. Reply to this and include a copy of the macro that is on the TV button.

Thanks


Nils,

Apologies in advance for quite a long post, but I've been doing quite a bit of playing with the extender as you know. There is definitely some unintended interaction between the following :

1) ToadTog
2) The scroll function
3) The M1-4 keys.
4) The TV, Sat or VCR key

    Using a M key in a macro causes an you to require a different number of scroll commands to get to the correct screen, I think it adds one extra.

    Using the Scroll function changes ToadTog toggle values, I have not worked out the exact relationship, but its almost as though there are two banks of toggles which get switched, I assume that ToadTog uses a byte to represent the sates of the 8 toggles, could this be being swaped when the screen changes?

    Using the Sat, TV or VCR key (which are the devices that have different screens) changes ToadTog toggle values.

    Using scroll for the first time in a macro does not select the default screen for the device, it simply changes to the next one, this started when you implemented the default screen selection.

It's quite possible that the all the above only occur in much more specific situations than described above, they are just effects that I've noticed.

I've uploaded my current setup here :

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jp1/files/Diagnosis%20Area/8060-Ext1-Combiner-V4.txt

Its quite complex, but I think you are getting familiar with my setup now!

I've tried to work around most of the above, but there is one I can't get round. The Sat device controls two devices which are sub-selected using the M1 and M2 keys, these set a ToadTog (toggle 2). All the other Sat keys test the toggle and execute the commands for the M1 device or M2 device. The Sat key is set to turn on various devices and select the correct inputs etc., setup the screen layout on the remote and select the M1 device. The Shift Sat key is set to simply setup the remote without switching the devices on etc. This all works fine, except that pressing the Shift Sat key always sets toggle 2 even though it is nothing to do with it. I would also like to distinguish between the two devices by setting M1 to use screen (2 the default) and M2 to use screen 1. However due the afore mentioned problems I can not get this working and keep the toggle value correct.

If you need a simpler version which shows the problem then I can construct one for you, just let me know what would be the easiest way for you to test it to see whats going on.

Richard
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

RichardP wrote:

In your case the Pvr key is actually the Exit button so you should use this button for the Key move.


Richard I mean the Info/AV button not the PVR button.

RichardP wrote:

In addition the pvr (exit button really) key in the extended remote will not chnage the screen that the remote displays, you will have to do that within a macro or DSM in conjunction with a ToadTog which causes this to happen only when the pvr screen is displayed. The screen display functionality is not ideal in the extended remote, I think its better with a pvr type SAT system to set the default screen to 2 so that all the available buttons are displayed from the start.


If you look at my data you see that I do the screen selection already. Very Happy

Thanks,
Emil
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RichardP



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

egn wrote:
Richard I mean the Info/AV button not the PVR button.


In that case the info button is mapped to the "AV (Input-Select)" button.

Richard
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

RichardP wrote:

Apologies in advance for quite a long post, but I've been doing quite a bit of playing with the extender as you know. There is definitely some unintended interaction between the following :

1) ToadTog
2) The scroll function
3) The M1-4 keys.
4) The TV, Sat or VCR key



I have similar problems. I now have implemented a simple Toadtog DiscreteON and DiscreteOFF. As described above I put a call of DiscreteON at the end of the device selection macro:

Code:

10   VCR   T_TV;C_TV;M_TV;P_TV;V_VCR;O_VCR;DiscreteON


In this case it always sends the power code and turns on/off the TV. As the DiscreteOFF works ok I have checked if ToadTog works and it seems it always sets the state as the DiscreteOFF always sends a IR signal.

Code:

10   VCR   T_TV;C_TV;M_TV;P_TV;V_VCR;O_VCR;DiscreteON;Ok


With this pressing the device button suppress sending the IR signal but still keeps track of the state as DiscreteOFF sends a signal once.

Please note that when pressing DiscreteOn/DiscreteOff as macro on different keys works perfectly, except that there is an occasional illumination of the IR indicator. But there seems to be no IR signal sent.

Emil
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: URC-8060 Extender and not illuminated keys Reply with quote

RichardP wrote:

In that case the info button is mapped to the "AV (Input-Select)" button.
Richard


Oh, great this works!

Thanks,
Emil
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will take a look into this. My guess is that all of these are related to just one problem. I must be stepping on a register that is common to both device selection and TT.

Putting a scroll in the same macro as an O_ device change could cause one to override the other but there may be around that.

Moving the TT's further up in the macro (not last) may help.
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egn



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nils_Ekberg wrote:

Moving the TT's further up in the macro (not last) may help.


I played around with this but the only difference is as above. Sometimes it never sends the IR signal and sometimes always.

Emil
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Nils_Ekberg
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richard & Emil
Edit the $0181 protocol in your extender image and replace the data in the box with the following data and let me know if it helps with the ToadTog problem. Just trying a different register. Make sure you don't have any spaces on the end of each line.

Richard
Earleir you offered me a simple image that would help me diagnos this problem so if this does not help please e-mail it to me.

00 00 01 28 03 F0 C2 1C 01 56 C2 07 90 C1 2A F9
28 03 56 03 07 38 3A 26 C3 03 74 6C C1 6B 04 38
03 B0 03 A4 03 C3 2B 0D 87 43 2D A6 9B 9C 3B 05
82 9B C4 3A EE 37 26 03 44 C1 6C 37 2F 03 B4 C1
6C AF
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RichardP



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nils,

A quick test indicates that this seems to work. Is there any thing else that might be using the same registers in another protocol, and if so how do I check for it?

Richard
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